Logbook Discrepancies

chrisreedrules

chrisreedrules

Master Blaster
Okay so... I'm still working on getting my "eLogbook" squared away to finish filling out my airline apps and to get ready for interviews. I was planning on having this done a week ago but some stuff came up with the home remodel and this took a back seat. I'm focusing on it again and I'm hellhound and determined to finish this in the next couple of days...

So the short of it is, my original logbook for my training up through my instrument rating is kind of a mess. I had at least 5 different instructors (based on the different signatures and from what I can remember) and invariably some of them logged stuff differently. Like for instance: Instructor A logged some simulator time as "Simulated Instrument" time. Instructor B logged it only as "Simulator Time" and didn't count it towards anything else. Well being a student I just totaled up whatever they wrote down and I've been carrying it over ever since and not thinking anything of it... Until now as I go back through everything. How should I record this stuff in my eLog? Should I just record it "as is" or do I change it and have some minor differences between my paper logs and my eLog? Any advice is much appreciated.
 
If you record it as the instructor logged it you really won't have any hard questions to answer because they attached their signature and certificate number. Changing the way they logged it might open you up to suspicion.

My logbook situation is as bad as they come and once I explain my original logs were stolen no one has ever questioned me further. The reasons, I suspect, is because it's easy to tell if a pilot got his time by ballpoint. Don't sweat minutia.
 
esa17 said:
If you record it as the instructor logged it you really won't have any hard questions to answer because they attached their signature and certificate number. Changing the way they logged it might open you up to suspicion.

My logbook situation is as bad as they come and once I explain my original logs were stolen no one has ever questioned me further. The reasons, I suspect, is because it's easy to tell if a pilot got his time by ballpoint. Don't sweat minutia.
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That's true. I know of a person who got on with a 121 carrier. When it came time for the Sim The individual claimed they were current did and Many precision and non-precision approaches. so in the Sim, The individual takes off and immediately loses situational awareness you can probably guess how the ILS and VOR approaches went too. They could not hold altitude or heading Nor new basic stuff like The 123 rule. The individual was allowed to resign but it was strongly suspected that she falsified the hell out of that logbook. Nice-looking bimbo though. I guess the chief thought with his smaller head when she got hired but all it took was a phone call these days for an interview.
 
I would combine categories where appropriate. You know what constitutes particular lesson plans, if your original instructor logged "Simulator" time incorrectly (in lieu of Simulated Instrument or some other type of error) I would not perpetuate this mistake on my electronic logbook. I've never been asked to see my original training logbook in any case.
 
floridabeachbum said:
That's true. I know of a person who got on with a 121 carrier. When it came time for the Sim The individual claimed they were current did Many precision and non-precision approach so in the Sim. The individual takes off and immediately loses situational awareness you can probably guess how the ILS and VOR approaches went too. They could not hold altitude or heading Nornew basic stuff like The 123 rule. The individual was allowed to resign but it was strongly suspected that she falsified the hell out of that logbook. Nice-looking bimbo though. I guess the chief thought with his smaller head.
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That sounds familiar haha... I wonder if I'm thinking of the same person
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
I would combine categories where appropriate. You know what constitutes particular lesson plans, if your original instructor logged "Simulator" time incorrectly (in lieu of Simulated Instrument or some other type of error) I would not perpetuate this mistake on my electronic logbook. I've never been asked to see my original training logbook in any case.
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Yea that's what I would like to do... But now all my paper logs would have the discrepancy. *Le sigh
 
chrisreedrules said:
Yea that's what I would like to do... But now all my paper logs would have the discrepancy. *Le sigh
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Correct it in the paper logbook if that bothers you. Strike a line through SImulator, record as Simulated Instrument. I wouldn't bother correcting every page totals though, but simply correcting the math at the end of the book. But honestly, bringing a nicely printed/bound version of your electronic logbook has served me well on the last 3-4 jobs. I have scanned copies of my original training endorsements, but I've never been asked to see them either. I honestly could probably burn the paper logbook and wouldn't be any worse off for it.
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
I would combine categories where appropriate. You know what constitutes particular lesson plans, if your original instructor logged "Simulator" time incorrectly (in lieu of Simulated Instrument or some other type of error) I would not perpetuate this mistake on my electronic logbook.
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I agree. But determine whether it's a "mistake" or not and how you want to log things.

Chris, you mentioned device time (I don't use the term "simulator" since that word has a very specific FAA meaning). That's one the best examples I can think of since which columns are used for what purpose is more a matter of bookkeeping than regulation.

The regs clearly allow instrument time in a device to be logged as "simulated instrument time" and as "instruction received" (as usual, see FAR 61.51 and 1.1 definitions). But, for so many reasons, including filling out an 8710 which separates the two, putting hood time (simulated instrument and instructional time that is "flight time") in the same column as instrument work in a device (simulated instrument and instructional time that is not "flight time") in the same column is viewed by many as a bad idea. So it's become pretty common to reserve columns like simulated instrument and dual received for "flight time" entries and enter device time in its own column, all by itself. Much cleaner bookkeeping and easier to generate the proper totals but neither is intrinsically "right" or "wrong"

The problem is that not every CFI thinks this way (I actually have this discussion with instrument students). Your description sounds like exactly this issue. Each flight individually was probably logged correctly under the regs but falls apart when you start totaling and trying to differentiate your "flight time" from time in a device.

I would (actually did) make a choice on how I wanted to log this and a few other things. I actually did the corrections in my paper logbook with a line item indication I had made corrections and updated the totals. But that was before electronic logs. If I were in your position, I'd do pretty much as @SpriaMirabils suggests - although apparently the exact opposite way - decide the way I wanted to do the bookkeeping and enter the time electronically based on that. I might still add a line item to my logbook indicating what I had done, especially since it is going to change some of the totals.

BTW, you are going to find a lot more errors once your data entry is completed and you run electronic totals and find a bunch of mismatches. Some basic arithmetic when you did logbook totals (I gave up doing page totals on paper 9 years ago); others data entry errors during your conversion. It's to be expected.
 
Thanks... Yea I've already caught a handful of errors and I'm almost through the first 500 hours... Now for the next 1,000+ haha
 
My original logbooks were a mess. I was 16 when I soloed, didn't finish until nine years later and my logbooks look like it. When I interviewed at XJT in '07, I transferred all my original logbook entries to an e-log. I printed it out, put it in a nice binder and included my original logbooks in the inside pockets of the binder. No one said a word. Now if I could only get the last couple years of trip sheets logged...... :)
 
Mine are finally sorted. Only two written logbooks, and all electronic. I have been through the data a few times, but there is still a really frustrating 20 minute difference between the paper and electronic version that I would love to resolve, but don't have the time or energy to do it. 20 mins in a few thousand hours is pedantry I know but I like these things all to add up.
 
I entered all my time into an eLogbook, corrected in pencil at the end of each page, and then when completed, entered a one line correction in pen and initialed it.
Took me over two years to complete it due to computer glitches, (ie, Computer stupidty on my part), so be sure to back it up frequently and consider backing it up online off the computer, Cloud etc.
 
For those ebook people. How did you guys transfer your paper to your ebook? My airline time was synced via my company schedule website. But I looked at other services that want 300 bucks to scan my paper logbook. I bought the Mcc logbook, so any ideas how to transfer paper to ebook?
 
For airlineapps I just use a rounded number thats as close to what I can remember. Have been to 3 interviews based on that. Offered 3 jobs. Just can't bring myself to go back to the regional world. Great interview prep though for the job I do want.
Also. During said interviews only my current logbook was looked at, some columns were totaled to see if they matched and the rest of the time was just typical interview questions. I would say don't sweat it too hard unless its going to be in the back of your mind and you'll be unable to stop thinking about it.
 
SFCC/UND said:
For those ebook people. How did you guys transfer your paper to your ebook? My airline time was synced via my company schedule website. But I looked at other services that want 300 bucks to scan my paper logbook. I bought the Mcc logbook, so any ideas how to transfer paper to ebook?
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Are you talking about just scanning the logbook to images or pdf for backup purposes or entering the flights into an electronic database?

If just the former, have you tried places like FedEx office, Staples and Office Depot?
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
Are you talking about just scanning the logbook to images or pdf for backup purposes or entering the flights into an electronic database?

If just the former, have you tried places like FedEx office, Staples and Office Depot?
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There are scanning places online that will convert the images into a csv doc. I just want everything on my logbook to be on my electronic logbook. But spending 200-300 bucks, is not my cup of tea.
 
SFCC/UND said:
There are scanning places online that will convert the images into a csv doc. I just want everything on my logbook to be on my electronic logbook. But spending 200-300 bucks, is not my cup of tea.
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That's why I asked. Two different processes with two very different price points.
 
So, when you apply and interview, do these people want to see signatures in your logbook to verify your flights and training? Just trying to get a better understanding of this process.
 
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