Malaysian 777 Plane Crashes in Ukraine

mshunter said:
You land where it's safe, make an effort, try and contact the separatists, and make an effort. What I've seen so far has been far from am effort. And I'm getting my information from multiple sources. The article I read today(one of many) was from Blomberg.
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Did these people even attempt to make contact with the airplane?! From what I've read, they were flying around fat, dumb, and happy until....
 
mshunter said:
My point is why do you think they would have an issue accessing the site? There are literally thousands of pictures all over the internet now. So how would it have been an issue to get in there and at least look for the FDR/CVR and take pictures themselves?
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Have you not read the reports daily about what has gone on at the site since the first moments of the crash? The civilians as pointed out are no real threat because of who they are. The Separatists and their Russian leaders took over immediately to begin to hide, haul away and conceal anything that may have been evidence. Not to mention the looting. Do you seriously think they would have allowed anyone from the carrier to have access to the scene?

These Separatists are barbaric bastards, and no better than any other terrorists, in truth. They just murdered almost 300 people and they don't care! They are out in the fields helping themselves to cellphones, wallets, jewelry, credit cards, money, anything of value that they can find, in between hauling off major portions of the plane to try and cover up their misdeed. They would have no qualms in shooting anyone who got in their way. Look at how they have treated the dead from this crash, even the babies and the children. You think they will treat the living any better?

Did you not see how heavily armed the Separatists were/are and in what numbers they are gathered there? Did you not read of them not allowing access by anyone out side of themselves, Russians and the local villagers and even shooting over the heads of the investigators, not allowing them near the site and threatening them? The area was/is still not safe. You land somewhere safe? Where is that exactly? And you get to the site unfettered, how exactly? And you talk to whom? How many entities are involved that you would have to go through? Do you think that happens overnight? The PM's of Australia, the Netherlands and our own President couldn't make any actual headway the first several days. How would the airline protect or guarantee the safety of any team they might send in? What real authority would Malaysia Airlines even have in this area/country to begin with? How do you know what they may have tried behind the scene(s) to begin with? You don't.

As for the flight and data recorders, they were the first items that the Separatists and the Russians went after, took control of and hurried them away from the scene, almost immediately.

Really, you are just not thinking this through clearly.
 
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Like I tried to insinuate earlier, myself and Tabriz Radar can have a great working relationship when I transit Iranian airspace enroute to Mumbai, but once I land or GET SHOT OUT OF THE MOTHERGRABBING SKY, all bets are off.

Like this.
 
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A Life Aloft said:
The worst photo that I saw over the weekend was of a nude baby, maybe 10 months old or so, just lying abandoned in an empty field. The body was intact, no obvious injuries and just laying on it's back, so helpless, so innocent, so pure, so incredibly lonely and stark, yet so obscene in it's personal unspeakable horror, that it made me weep. I still cannot get that image out of my mind nor the thoughts for all aboard that fated flight, but especially for all the children. It has made me so angry, and so frustrated. I cannot believe the indignities that have taken place since the crash. There apparently is no low that humankind can sink to and no boundaries that will not be crossed. It's very saddening. It diminishes one's hope.
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After death, desecration.

Sickening.
 
gne in prog said:
Easy. Just fly to Maldova, rent a couple of seat pandas and throw vlad at the border eleven dollars. Make sure to bring an American to yell, "I'm an American! I have rights!" at anyone armed.
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Those would be the people I tried to not seem associated with on the various university trips abroad.
 
gne in prog said:
Easy. Just fly to Maldova, rent a couple of seat pandas and throw vlad at the border eleven dollars. Make sure to bring an American to yell, "I'm an American! I have rights!" at anyone armed.
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Hilarious!

I knew that when I strolled into the "occupied territories" during my TLV layover, it may be a one way trip and wouldn't expect our state department to have any pull.
 
I just think too many of us are judging this through American spectacles.

The real world east of Providence, west of Wasila, south of Brownsville
(??) and north of International Falls is much different that what we hear about on Fox (all bad) and Disney International showcase (all good).
 
texas_pilot said:
I haven't read all 31 pages, but has it been discussed that between the explosion and high altitude that everyone would have already been dead or unconcious?
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This is going to sound brutal, but based on the pictures we've seen so far...

Unless killed by the impact/shrapnel, you would have been conscious and strapped in your seat as the aircraft disintegrated around you. You would probably lose consciousness a few seconds later from the rapid decompression.

You'd then likely regain consciousness in freefall, passing through 10,000ft and still strapped to your seat, and would be alive until you hit the ground.
 
A Life Aloft said:
There apparently is no low that humankind can sink to and no boundaries that will not be crossed.
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This can't be the first time you've come to this realization -- is it?

This type of behavior is a lot more common than some would like to believe; the world is a cruel, violent place. The "civilized" thoughts and actions of most of us middle-class, educated, western people don't even register on the thoughts of people in a large swath of the rest of the world.

Certainly one of the problems that we Americans have is living on a continent where we only share borders with two other states, and our territory is so large that many Americans will never leave it in their lifetimes.
 
Hacker15e said:
This can't be the first time you've come to this realization -- is it?

This type of behavior is a lot more common than some would like to believe; the world is a cruel, violent place. The "civilized" thoughts and actions of most of us middle-class, educated, western people don't even register on the thoughts of people in a large swath of the rest of the world.

Certainly one of the problems that we Americans have is living on a continent where we only share borders with two other states, and our territory is so large that many Americans will never leave it in their lifetimes.
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It's not that I am not well aware of all the deaths, the sufferings, the abuses, the tortures, the rapes, the abductions, the murders, the starvations, the imprisonments, the wars/conflicts, the poverty, the selling of women and children and dozens of other atrocities that occur on this planet on a daily basis.

I guess it hit me hard because these innocent people were already victims. Even in death, they are yet again victimized by their murderers. And just that photo of that one baby, forever lost, alone in that field, naked, without it's parents.......it just hit me hard. All I wanted to do in my mind was to pick him/her up, hold them in my arms, cover that poor baby up and take it out of that terrible place and back to whatever living relatives it may have.
 
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Western Europe is not the world. Here's the deal. If you fall dead in some cities in Eastern Europe or even Asia, most people would get pissed that your corpse is blocking the sidewalk.

My first Moscow layover, the driver was telling us how there was road construction going on where they were repairing potholes and some oligarch in a Mercedes ran across one, got stuck in traffic, stepped out of his car, killed two of the construction workers, and drove on.

And the bodies laid in the street for two more hours during rush hour as people drove around them and honked.

This wasn't some story on Buzzfeed.

The world outside of what we know is an oft cruel and dangerous place.
 
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Derg said:
Western Europe is not the world. Here's the deal. If you fall dead in some cities in Eastern Europe or even Asia, most people would get pissed that your corpse is blocking the sidewalk.

My first Moscow layover, the driver was telling us how there was road construction going on where they were repairing potholes and some oligarch in a Mercedes ran across one, got stuck in traffic, stepped out of his car, killed two of the contraction workers, and drove on.

And the bodies laid in the street for two more hours during rush hour as people drove around them.

This wasn't some story on Buzzfeed.

The world outside of what we know is a oft cruel and potentially dangerous place.
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My first time in Minsk, Belarus really opened my eyes to some craziness like you talk about. However, I believe that anyone, anywhere in the world is capable of that type of depravity and it truly is a sad thing.
 
mshunter said:
If you're not willing to accept the risk of aviation(including heading into a place such as this through the air AND on the ground), then stay out of it. They were willing to risk these peoples lives in the sky, so they should also be willing to risk their own on the ground.

If they couldn't get to the site, then get as close as you can.
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Are you high?
 
I don't claim to know anything other than what I've seen in the media and read on the interwebs. My suspicion is that this was a poorly trained crew on an advanced missile system that weren't able to properly identify a target and shot at it anyway, and it worked.
The actions afterwards are reprehensible and eventually we will have a much better idea of what happened.
 
knot4u said:
I don't claim to know anything other than what I've seen in the media and read on the interwebs. My suspicion is that this was a poorly trained crew on an advanced missile system that weren't able to properly identify a target and shot at it anyway, and it worked.
The actions afterwards are reprehensible and eventually we will have a much better idea of what happened.
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This.

And we have armed many people with advanced weapons in the past (and the present?) but it doesn't absolve the people.
 
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