Appologize if its a repost...musicians denied boarding

Probably way more to the story. I'd be willing to bet the guys weren't willing to store them in the overheads.

Of course, it could have been Captain I'm Going to Make Things Unneccessarily Difficult trying to flex his moustache power, but I find it hard to believe they couldn't find somewhere for them. My bets on the musicians insisting they stay in laps.
 
I'm guessing it more or less went down like this:

That's too big for our overhead bins/I'm sorry, we're out of space in the overhead bins. You'll need to gate check it, and you can pick it up at your destination.

This is my violin. I'm not checking it into the cargo bin. It'll get broken.

Repeat x3


My question is, was the flight they took later less full, or did they throw the crew that was probably doing their jobs under the bus? Wouldn't be surprised if the musicians were confused on the carry on rules for what was likely a -200. Not the first time, won't be the last.
 
Kingairer said:
Is there crew bag storage on a Cr7?
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Yes, forward closet, fits 3 crew bags for us and passenger items. I think there are a couple of configurations thought depending on what the airline ordered (ie a 2nd forward closet) so I can't speak for a PSA 700.
 
As captains and future captains, don't do dumb things like this. Walk up and shake their hands and find a solution that works for everyone. This (I am in charge), (I am the captain), (You have to do it our way) mentality that seems to permeate many airlines is disgraceful. Is it really that difficult to see this through the musician's eyes? As a captain, I've had many situations similar to this dumped in my lap to solve. Some aren't fixable, but most just take a little creativity and giving a damn. Look for opportunities to take care of the needs of your passengers and you will be a better crew member for doing it - to say nothing of the goodwill you will create.
 
CaptBill said:
As captains and future captains, don't do dumb things like this. Walk up and shake their hands and find a solution that works for everyone. This (I am in charge), (I am the captain), (You have to do it our way) mentality that seems to permeate many airlines is disgraceful. Is it really that difficult to see this through the musician's eyes? As a captain, I've had many situations similar to this dumped in my lap to solve. Some aren't fixable, but most just take a little creativity and giving a damn. Look for opportunities to take care of the needs of your passengers and you will be a better crew member for doing it - to say nothing of the goodwill you will create.
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I can totally see it through the musicians' eyes. I feel for them, but there are rules. What would your solution be? I know if it were on the -200, there's no coat closet. You can ask someone else to gate check their bag that's already in the overhead, but you don't really have control over their answer. Keeping it in the flight deck, although a lot of guys do it, is a security risk. This is one of those that "isn't fixable." The solution to the problem is where the gate check policy comes from. The best thing to do in this situation, if there really IS no overhead bin space and no one will give up their carry on to be checked is to apologize, empathize and explain NICELY that there's not many other options to them. At some point the musicians also need to see it from the flight crew's eyes instead of jumping on the "airlines hate their passengers" bandwagon.
 
CaptBill said:
As captains and future captains, don't do dumb things like this. Walk up and shake their hands and find a solution that works for everyone. This (I am in charge), (I am the captain), (You have to do it our way) mentality that seems to permeate many airlines is disgraceful. Is it really that difficult to see this through the musician's eyes? As a captain, I've had many situations similar to this dumped in my lap to solve. Some aren't fixable, but most just take a little creativity and giving a damn. Look for opportunities to take care of the needs of your passengers and you will be a better crew member for doing it - to say nothing of the goodwill you will create.
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This is what I was getting at. Its hard to believe there is no room in the cabin or a closet for violin, especially when you see the captain dragging his big bag up the stairs. Sure you don't have to do that as the captain and you can stand on the fact that you are "right", but wouldn't you rather try to find a solution? Check your bag and put the violin there, find a row to put it under..do something.
 
kellwolf said:
I can totally see it through the musicians' eyes. I feel for them, but there are rules. What would your solution be? I know if it were on the -200, there's no coat closet. You can ask someone else to gate check their bag that's already in the overhead, but you don't really have control over their answer. Keeping it in the flight deck, although a lot of guys do it, is a security risk. This is one of those that "isn't fixable." The solution to the problem is where the gate check policy comes from. The best thing to do in this situation, if there really IS no overhead bin space and no one will give up their carry on to be checked is to apologize, empathize and explain NICELY that there's not many other options to them. At some point the musicians also need to see it from the flight crew's eyes instead of jumping on the "airlines hate their passengers" bandwagon.
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I'll bet that if the captain or FO happened to be carrying their own fragile items (maybe violins) that there would be another option than loading them in the belly. My point was, there didn't appear to be much empathy on the part of the airline; however, I wasn't there and don't have the whole story. I do see on a far too regular basis though, airline employees that almost go out of their way to provide poor customer service and flex their authority improperly. As a crew member, you do have the ability, on occasion, to right a wrong and I encourage you to do it.
 
CaptBill said:
If you based who got on by how they were dressed, most planes would go out with a lot of empty seats.
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Very true, but it seems like people are shown more respect/consideration when they are dressed a little better. One more thing, we obviously only see the aftermath of the denied boarding. It is hard to say how nice the two violinists were when initially confronted.

With all that being said, I completely agree with everything you said about trying to find a solution that benefits everyone.
 
guywhoflies said:
I would venture to say if they were dressed a little more professionally (read: anything other than a backwards hat, Puma pants and TMNT shirt) they may have had a better shot at getting on. I mean, seriously, those dudes aren't 12.
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I couldn't help but notice that myself. It isn't exactly what one thinks of when they think of a concert violinist even on his day off.

I might be reading too much into their appearance, but my guess is that their personal interactions during the event may have paralleled their appearance and been a factor in the end result.
 
Looks to me like just a couple of opportunistic dudes using this situation to get themselves some free advertising for their little band. What's funny to me is there is a guy sawing on a violin and another guy is videoing him on an airline ramp and no one cares. Yet the TSA will pat down a member of the armed forces in a heartbeat.
 
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I'm not saying a solution couldn't be worked out buuuuuut....

PSA is a non carry-on airline. Our performance data is based on this fact.

At the end of the day in the case of a ramp check, etc, etc the entire crew of 4 on this acft could be held responsible. Our manual is very specific when describing the total size of combined items allowed per person. Anything more would be a VIOLINtion.
 
guywhoflies said:
I would venture to say if they were dressed a little more professionally (read: anything other than a backwards hat, Puma pants and TMNT shirt) they may have had a better shot at getting on. I mean, seriously, those dudes aren't 12.
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Really? If my non-flying ventures work out and I fly revenue everywhere, I'd wear basketball shorts and flip flops with a stupid t-shirt everywhere I went while expecting the same service as those around me. If these guys copped an attitude with the crew, that's a whole different story. But really, who cares how they're dressed? They're not non-revs.
 
ChasenSFO said:
Really? If my non-flying ventures work out and I fly revenue everywhere, I'd wear basketball shorts and flip flops with a stupid t-shirt everywhere I went while expecting the same service as those around me. If these guys copped an attitude with the crew, that's a whole different story. But really, who cares how they're dressed? They're not non-revs.
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Your beef is with society. It's just a fact of life, if you look good, dress well etc. you'll likely be treated better.
 
wheelsup said:
Your beef is with society. It's just a fact of life, if you look good, dress well etc. you'll likely be treated better.
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Meh, depends on how you act. If I dressed the way I dress and wanted to be taken as straight-laced guy, it just wouldn't work. But since I'm pretty much "The Dude" in life, it works and I still get treated very well by others. An example is in my last tower, where I was the only one who came to work looking like they were going to the beach and grew out my hair and a grizzly beard. Management always made passive aggressive comments about it, as did my co-workers, but that didn't stop me from getting promoted to my current gig over all of them due to my performance. At the gig before that, I wore uniform pants that were like 10 sizes too big(after I lost a bunch of weight) in customer service because I thought it was funny, still got promoted to acting supervisor again due to my performance.YMMV.
 
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ChasenSFO said:
Meh, depends on how you act. If I dressed the way I dress and wanted to be taken as straight-laced guy, it just wouldn't work. But since I'm pretty much "The Dude" in life, it works and I still get treated very well by others. An example is in my last tower, where I was the only one who came to work looking like they were going to the beach and grew out my hair and a grizzly beard. Management always made passive aggressive comments about it, as did my co-workers, but that didn't stop me from getting promoted to my current gig over all of them due to my performance. At the gig before that, I wore uniform pants that were like 10 sizes too big(after I lost a bunch of weight) in customer service because I thought it was funny, still got promoted to acting supervisor again due to my performance.YMMV.
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Well I didn't realize you were ATC. Those guys dress pretty funky, they just don't care.

But, outside of your work environment, you will be treated better by the general population if you dress better and don't look like a slob. That's just life. I really can't believe we are having a debate about this...
 
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