Training Agreement

skypilot6

skypilot6

Well-Known Member
Finally getting a Upgrade! WooHoo! however it comes with a 2 year agreement, which I'm fine with.

I just got the paperwork today for the training agreement and was seeing if anyone could look over it for any "gotchas" it looks pretty straight forward, just making sure i have all my bases covered.

Please PM me as I don't want to post specifics here, Thanks
 
It is a training agreement, says the company will pay for the cost of training is the employes agrees not to leave the job within 2 years. its not a loan or a bond, it states I am responsible for the full cost of training the first year then pro rated after that.
 
I can not comment on the legal side, because you can usually find a lawyer that will argue your right. But to say to an employee that you can not leave for X amount of time, irregardless of the actions of the company, sound like extortion, and trust me, misconduct can be anything. What if the company tells you to run a load of Colombian bam bam, you say no, they fire you, you owe it based on the agreement. I do believe that these types of contracts are hard to enforce, as they are one sided and hold a employee to a higher standard then the employer . But on another note, can you work there for 24 months? If you can't, hate to say it, maybe you should not work there or not take the upgrade. If they would of just say it's a loan and that repayment was this or that, then it would not complicate the issue, but when they attach employment with the terms it get a little gray as to your rights.
 
SFLAX said:
I can not comment on the legal side, because you can usually find a lawyer that will argue your right. But to say to an employee that you can not leave for X amount of time, irregardless of the actions of the company, sound like extortion, and trust me, misconduct can be anything. What if the company tells you to run a load of Colombian bam bam, you say no, they fire you, you owe it based on the agreement. I do believe that these types of contracts are hard to enforce, as they are one sided and hold a employee to a higher standard then the employer . But on another note, can you work there for 24 months? If you can't, hate to say it, maybe you should not work there or not take the upgrade. If they would of just say it's a loan and that repayment was this or that, then it would not complicate the issue, but when they attach employment with the terms it get a little gray as to your rights.
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Exactly. I haven't seen your contract, but from what it sounds like, it's very poorly worded (from your standpoint), however, likely very unenforceable (if you found yourself in a position where you had to fight it).

The courts tend not to uphold contracts that are tantamount to indentured service. The generally accepted way of doing any sort of contract regarding training costs for an employee is to bond them, or to have them sign a promissory note for the portion of the training cost that the employer is holding the employee to (i.e. 100% if you leave within the first 3 months, 75% if within the next 3 months, etc., as an example).

Either way, going beyond a year is ridiculous. If they want you to be on the hook for something if you left within the first year, not cool, but OK. Going out to two years, where it's only pro rated after the first 12 months is absolutely ridiculous. What happens when you need to go back for recurrent in 12 months? Are they going to ask you to sign another contract at that point?
 
SFLAX said:
I can not comment on the legal side, because you can usually find a lawyer that will argue your right. But to say to an employee that you can not leave for X amount of time, irregardless of the actions of the company, sound like extortion, and trust me, misconduct can be anything. What if the company tells you to run a load of Colombian bam bam, you say no, they fire you, you owe it based on the agreement. I do believe that these types of contracts are hard to enforce, as they are one sided and hold a employee to a higher standard then the employer . But on another note, can you work there for 24 months? If you can't, hate to say it, maybe you should not work there or not take the upgrade. If they would of just say it's a loan and that repayment was this or that, then it would not complicate the issue, but when they attach employment with the terms it get a little gray as to your rights.
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The enforcement of these kinds of provisions depend on state law and states are very different from each other when it comes to this kind of stuff. I've seen repay-cost of training contracts enforced as a matter of course in some states.

I can't even begin to comment on the one that's the subject of this thread since I haven't seen it but, offhand, a pro rata payback after the first year with forgiveness for termination for cause doesn't sound like slavery.
 
He did not say cause, cause opens them up to a lawsuit . Most places, just say your services are no longer needed, when employers give cause the amount of required documentation is pretty high and it opens them up . Just went through this with my last job. But they seem to be mixing this employment contract in with a loan or bond. Which would just complicate matters. I agree above, when your next training event happens, then what?
 
Patrick said:
Either way, going beyond a year is ridiculous. If they want you to be on the hook for something if you left within the first year, not cool, but OK. Going out to two years, where it's only pro rated after the first 12 months is absolutely ridiculous. What happens when you need to go back for recurrent in 12 months? Are they going to ask you to sign another contract at that point?
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This was the first thing I thought. ^^^

You should not be ok with this.
 
I am ok with the 2 years, I just bought a house in the area and I'm not planning on going anywhere, the job isn't the greatest but isn't the worst by far. I've been with them for almost 2 years now and the training agreement is a new deal because the upgrade in aircraft is almost double the training cost. They are just trying to cover their end and I understand that.

There are 2 Documents, a Training Agreement outlining the, well, Agreement. And a Promissory Note.

As for recurrent there is no recurring contract or agreement, Once the 2 years are up I'm free to go or stay depending on how things look in the market at the time (which we all know should be pretty good)
 
skypilot6 said:
I am ok with the 2 years, I just bought a house in the area and I'm not planning on going anywhere, the job isn't the greatest but isn't the worst by far. I've been with them for almost 2 years now and the training agreement is a new deal because the upgrade in aircraft is almost double the training cost. They are just trying to cover their end and I understand that.

There are 2 Documents, a Training Agreement outlining the, well, Agreement. And a Promissory Note.

As for recurrent there is no recurring contract or agreement, Once the 2 years are up I'm free to go or stay depending on how things look in the market at the time (which we all know should be pretty good)
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Let us know how this works out for you. From what you're saying, I sure as hell wouldn't sign any of that. If they can't trust a current employee (you've been there for 2 years, and now they're going to put you in command of some expensive metal), to not screw them, you've got a serious situation where trust is not part of the equation on either side.
 
skypilot6 said:
I am ok with the 2 years, I just bought a house in the area and I'm not planning on going anywhere, the job isn't the greatest but isn't the worst by far. I've been with them for almost 2 years now and the training agreement is a new deal because the upgrade in aircraft is almost double the training cost. They are just trying to cover their end and I understand that.

There are 2 Documents, a Training Agreement outlining the, well, Agreement. And a Promissory Note.

As for recurrent there is no recurring contract or agreement, Once the 2 years are up I'm free to go or stay depending on how things look in the market at the time (which we all know should be pretty good)
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It's crap they're asking a 2 year employee to sign a contract. I grudgingly understand a year contract for new employees. 2 years is too long IMHO, and completely unreasonable for a current employee. Operating airplanes costs money. Paying for crew training is their expense.

Sent from my DROID RAZR
 
Two years is a long time man, I'd be wary. Just to put things in perspective, two years ago I wasn't married, didn't have a son, and lived 4000 miles away - a lot can happen in two years, shackling yourself to a company probably isn't the best bet. What if a family member gets deathly ill and you need to take care of them? What if you knock up your old-flame at the highschool reunion that's 2,000 miles away? And those ware just things in your life. What if the company starts getting strapped for cash and asks you to help out a little extra to get by and you don't want to work a 75hr work week? What if the company decides they're going to cut your pay? What if the maintenance goes down hill, or whatever?

I am paying back training debt because I needed to find a job that paid "real" money when we started a family a little earlier than we would have liked - if I could have waited 4 months I would have been free and clear, but I needed to start making money immediately or else we wouldn't have had a way to pay for the kid, so I'm paying one back as we speak - I don't recommend doing that, but life happens.
 
U_of_I_Tweak said:
It's crap they're asking a 2 year employee to sign a contract. I grudgingly understand a year contract for new employees. 2 years is too long IMHO, and completely unreasonable for a current employee. Operating airplanes costs money. Paying for crew training is their expense.

Sent from my DROID RAZR
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This.
 
Guys, I understand and appreciate your concern about a 2 year contract, yes it is a long time a lot could happen. I have had months to think about it and just received the actual document just recently. Im going to sign it and stay 2 years, There isnt a whole lot for professional aviation jobs in this area. My original plan when I first got this job was to stay 3-5 years, this puts me right in the middle of that plan. Like I said the job isn't the greatest but by far not the worst. At least we come home after EVERY 135 trip. The flight dept is part of a big food company, the flight department has been around for 60 years, and the company itself is growing every year (hence the need for mid sized jets) The job isn't going anywhere, and the paycheck is guaranteed every week.

The agreement looks straight forward, the intent of this thread was to have someone with legal knowledge to look at it and see if anything was out of the ordinary and could cause an issue should I leave during the agreement.
 
All I am going to say, does the CEO have to give back his stock options if he leaves before 2 years. And if it's a job you like for the short run or maybe it works for you, then do it. I work for a very very large company, the only thing they have on me is my moving expenses for 1 year. That is very common and applies to all employees . The biggest gotcha is the what if , but you have a house and have thought this through . I would sign it, if i was in your shoes based on what you have told us. Now is it the correct thing for a employer to do, I say no.
 
skypilot6 said:
Guys, I understand and appreciate your concern about a 2 year contract, yes it is a long time a lot could happen. I have had months to think about it and just received the actual document just recently. Im going to sign it and stay 2 years, There isnt a whole lot for professional aviation jobs in this area. My original plan when I first got this job was to stay 3-5 years, this puts me right in the middle of that plan. Like I said the job isn't the greatest but by far not the worst. At least we come home after EVERY 135 trip. The flight dept is part of a big food company, the flight department has been around for 60 years, and the company itself is growing every year (hence the need for mid sized jets) The job isn't going anywhere, and the paycheck is guaranteed every week.

The agreement looks straight forward, the intent of this thread was to have someone with legal knowledge to look at it and see if anything was out of the ordinary and could cause an issue should I leave during the agreement.
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That's all good until your dream job falls in your lap 11 months from now. Good luck.
 
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