LOW PASS - Embraer Sêneca

@Seggy

The 121 sop's and rules you are used to doesn't transfer perfectly to part 91 or other aspects of flying that people do when they post here.

We all understand your advocacy for safety, however there needs to be a common sense approach to safety, not a blind trust (black and white).

I routinely fly low passes over unfamiliar landing areas. That doesn't make me unsafe because I fly low, it makes me more safe, because I'm able to survey the LZ and assess the risks.
 
I thought 121 SOP's are designed to keep the worst pilot safe.
The FAA prefers to use the term "average" when discussing crews and air carrier safety; that is, a crew of "average" ability should be able to can an engine at V1, fly the single-engine departure procedure and not intersect with the terrain (for instance).

Edit: neither confirm nor deny, however, that those procedures are designed for the, er, least gifted pilots in the fleet.
 
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Secondly....... coupled with what happened during @Derg and @MikeD last class at Riddle has seared into my mind that just because it is 'fun' doesn't mean it is a good idea.
Thirdly, I am sure you are a great pilot along with the PIC of the Seneca. I just want to raise a few questions for others who may want to try to copy what your video is showing.

I routinely fly low passes over unfamiliar landing areas. That doesn't make me unsafe because I fly low, it makes me more safe, because I'm able to survey the LZ and assess the risks.

This is where the question is answered of "what's the operational necessity for doing what I'm doing."

It's a question that one must determine can be legitimately answered yes or no. In your case (and other cases) yes. In even other cases, oftentimes it is a no.
 
@Seggy

The 121 sop's and rules you are used to doesn't transfer perfectly to part 91 or other aspects of flying that people do when they post here.

I know.

We all understand your advocacy for safety, however there needs to be a common sense approach to safety, not a blind trust (black and white).

Going to be honest with you, I am pretty appalled that some folks on here are flat out dismissing my points here. It is a little unsettling.

I routinely fly low passes over unfamiliar landing areas. That doesn't make me unsafe because I fly low, it makes me more safe, because I'm able to survey the LZ and assess the risks.

I get why you would do that and I don't have a problem with that. I would probably do the same thing.

I have a problem with the 'hey watch this and videotape it' approach.
 
Yeah I tried clicking on that trick video a few times. Was thinking it was this new computer or something until I figured it out. I was also using it as another reason to prove that Windows 8 sucks. Must be Windows 8!
 
I know.



Going to be honest with you, I am pretty appalled that some folks on here are flat out dismissing my points here. It is a little unsettling.



I get why you would do that and I don't have a problem with that. I would probably do the same thing.

I have a problem with the 'hey watch this and videotape it' approach.
I did a low approach in Key West in a T-6 with a friend and banked over the air carrier ramp. Had my friend working a flight video tape it. Am I dangerrrrrrous?
 
I did a low approach in Key West in a T-6 with a friend and banked over the air carrier ramp. Had my friend working a flight video tape it. Am I dangerrrrrrous?

How high were you?

With that said, once again, 'Hey watch this', makes me cringe.
 
I just don't see the point of flying an airplane 10 feet off the ground unless you need to.

Bad things happen to good people.
 
Why drive on freeways? Why eat shellfish? Why let someone babysit your kid? Why go to a big city at night? Why goto mexico?

We can all live in a bubble but some seek more out of life than 9-5 with a wide and kids.

Big difference between living in a bubble, those things, and flying an airplane ten feet off the ground while you have someone video tape it.
 
Big difference between living in a bubble, those things, and flying an airplane ten feet off the ground while you have someone video tape it.
Not really. It's just what you presume to be useless risk. I wouldn't touch raw oysters but if gulley and his make believe air force want to play around I couldn't care less.
 
Everything has risk. I have no problem eating raw oysters from the right establishment like I have no problem with someone doing a flyby if they need to like @Nark pointed out.

I do have a problem eating raw oysters from some places like I have a problem with flybys when people are begging their friends to "watch".
 
@MikeD can you share the story of the video your professor showed last day at Riddle?

Professor Craig Funk, LtCol, USAF (ret). Col Funk was an ex-USAF RF-4C Phantom pilot that was a professor of Air Science at Riddle when Doug and I were there. Knowlegable and professional guy. Used to have two daughters. Both were killed in a Cessna 172 crash at Lake Amistad, near Del Rio, TX in 1986. The Cessna was doing all sorts of stupid aerobatic maneuvers over the lake and near the surrounding terrain, in addition to being over 300 pounds overweight and out of the aft CG envelope. The pilots were an AF IP and an AF student from the nearby Laughlin AFB, and the flying happened to be getting filmed by some people on a boat who happened to have a video camera. During a hammerhead maneuver, the plane stalled and hit the water, killing all four aboard. Funk was the Chief of Flight Safety at the time at Laughlin AFB.

Funk taught Aviation Safety classes at Riddle-PRC. The last day of class, he comes in says "good morning" and says that he'd like us to watch a video. He puts in the amateur video of the crash that killed his daughters (no one is aware of his past as he hadn't talked about it). Everyone mocks the video as the Cessna is doing it's flying...all the way up to it impacting the water. At the end of the 3 minute video, Funk asked "what did you think?" Several people made jabs about the stupid people in the plane, etc. Funk responds "if you took nothing else out of this class this summer, take this thought with you: Your job in the safety field, even that of a pilot, is to help ensure that accidents like this never happen. I've harped upon many things in this class over and over, sometimes ad naseum. In this accident (pointing to the TV), I lost my only daughters. THIS is why I do what I do. Please remember that in your future careers, so you never have to go down this road. Ever."

With that, he ejected the tape, turned off the TV, gathered his folder, and walked out of the room; the last day of class being over a little over 5 minutes after it started.

You could hear a pin drop from the stunned silence.

In a tragic twist of fate, LtCol Funk's son, Major Brad Funk, was tragically killed in May 2008 (along with a student pilot) in a T-38 landing accident at Sheppard AFB, TX, following recovery from a simulated-single engine touch & go that resulted in a touchdown short of the runway. Debris from the touchdown entered the right intake and FOD'ded the right engine, seizing it. Funk took control of the aircraft and got it back airborne, executing a single-engine go-around with full afterburner on the left engine, and retracted the gear on climbout, but retracted the flaps too early with regards to the thrust deficient situation now encountered. The T-38 stalled approximately 30 AGL, and both crew initiated ejection. During the ejection sequence, both ejection seats collided with one another, causing a malfunction of the parachute sequencing, and both seats impacted the ground with no seat-man separation. Both crewmembers suffered fatal injuries.

The 1986 accident here:

http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20001213X33055&key=1
 
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I just don't see the point of flying an airplane 10 feet off the ground unless you need to.

Bad things happen to good people.

Two issues here

1st, there isn't a point to flying a low pass down a runway in most cases.

People engage in semi-risky behaviors all the time because they are "fun". I fly spins in my airplane for no other reason than I enjoy doing spins. I also enjoyed doing wheelies on my motorcycle, water skiing, ect.

If someone wants to film such activities, who cares?


2nd, in most cases some simple common sense precautions can make these kind of activities fairly risk free.

If a person wants to fly a low pass to get a quick adrenaline rush, then a runway will provide an environment where they can be fairly certain that there will be few hazards to their aircraft. As opposed to buzzing someones house where there can be antennas or power-lines. When I spin an airplane, I start at a nice high altitude in one of our designated practice areas, and set a conservative exit altitude.

I knew guys who would do wheelies on busy city streets, but I only ever did them in an empty parking lot while wearing a full face helmet, boots, gloves and a leather jacket. This sort of risk management is IMHO the mark of a safety minded individual who understands what they are doing is risky, but is taking responsibility for their own actions.

Both were killed in a Cessna 172 crash at Lake Amistad, near Del Rio, TX in 1986. The Cessna was doing all sorts of stupid aerobatic maneuvers over the lake and near the surrounding terrain, in addition to being over 300 pounds overweight and out of the aft CG envelope. The pilots were an AF IP and an AF student from the nearby Laughlin AFB, and the flying happened to be getting filmed by some people on a boat who happened to have a video camera. During a hammerhead maneuver, the plane stalled and hit the water, killing all four aboard.

Flying a non aerobatic airplane overweight, out of CG, doing aerobatic maneuvers that it was never designed to perform, and at low altitude is an entirely different scenario. That is a "the rules don't apply to me" attitude, and no safety program can ever prevent this kind of accident. As long as these kind of people can get the keys to an airplane they are going to do what they want. I forget where I posted that video of the L-39 buzzing Santa Monica Pier, but that pilot had already had his license suspended several times for taking paying passengers in his jet. All the safety programs in the world are worthless without safety minded personnel.
 
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