Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
Snarky is better than not caring. The "enshalla" (god-willing) attitude in some of the Muslim world is a bit disturbing.
Rude ATC
- Thread starter Zidac
- Start date
Snarky is better than not caring. The "enshalla" (god-willing) attitude in some of the Muslim world is a bit disturbing.
I didn't watch the video and hear the audio, but from what I gathered reading this is that if the pilot got pissy with me, he would be flying without my assistance aka 1200...
Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
I've only had ATC get short with me once.
Was landing on 31L. During the roll he told us "Turn right....Mike....Bravo, minimum time on the runway." I read it back, then looked at the chart once we got slower and noticed there was a Mike Bravo, and a Mike that joins to Bravo. I couldn't clarify because he was already talking to someone else. He said minimum time on the runway, so we assumed he DIDN'T want us to take the reverse high speed. So we rolled up to MB and got off in a hurry. Then I got yelled at about how he's busy and he expects us to do what he tells us...turns out he wanted Mike then Bravo.
In the end it would have taken us much more time had we slowed to a speed at which we could take a reverse high speed. Probably should have asked for a number so I could explain it, but that's one of those battles you're gonna lose.
Was landing on 31L. During the roll he told us "Turn right....Mike....Bravo, minimum time on the runway." I read it back, then looked at the chart once we got slower and noticed there was a Mike Bravo, and a Mike that joins to Bravo. I couldn't clarify because he was already talking to someone else. He said minimum time on the runway, so we assumed he DIDN'T want us to take the reverse high speed. So we rolled up to MB and got off in a hurry. Then I got yelled at about how he's busy and he expects us to do what he tells us...turns out he wanted Mike then Bravo.
In the end it would have taken us much more time had we slowed to a speed at which we could take a reverse high speed. Probably should have asked for a number so I could explain it, but that's one of those battles you're gonna lose.
gotWXdagain
Polished Member
File the NASA, head to the bar. It was a good night.
So I have this 757 come in the other day and checks in crossing dirty at 14,000 and 310. I've been sitting there for a hour and a half so I definitely know what 310 looks like across the ground. I notice this 757 is showing 60 knots slower, after he crosses dirty, than everyone else so I kindly ask him his speed. He says,"We are slowing to 250 knots for passenger comfort." He asks if I need him at 310 knots. I respond with "...no I'll just tell center to slow everyone from dirty to Virginia so you can go whatever speed you want..." He responds with "...increasing speed to 310..." So should I have just kept my smart aleck comment to myself and issued him a Brasher Warning for his pilot deviation or just let it go with the smart remark and no paperwork? Sometimes things are said that may seem unprofessional, but they get the same point across without having paperwork done...
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
So, my choice is remark or deviation report? I'll take the remark.
"310 means 310, your deviations place other traffic at risk, increase speed to 310." How about that?
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I'm not saying a smart aleck comment needs to be said, but if I state the remark to get my point across like the one you wrote and my supervisor hears it, you will be filing out paperwork for a pilot deviation.
I think most pilots would agree with taking the comment versus the deviation. Hell, I got back from vacation the other day and was corrected by a pilot when I cleared him for an ILS via the Dirty 1 arrival and he asked me if I meant the Dirty 2 arrival since that was the current one. I apologized for my error, gave him the appropriate clearance, and that was it. The STAR changed while I was on vacation and no one at the facility was briefed that it changed from 1 to 2. They have now though...
I think most pilots would agree with taking the comment versus the deviation. Hell, I got back from vacation the other day and was corrected by a pilot when I cleared him for an ILS via the Dirty 1 arrival and he asked me if I meant the Dirty 2 arrival since that was the current one. I apologized for my error, gave him the appropriate clearance, and that was it. The STAR changed while I was on vacation and no one at the facility was briefed that it changed from 1 to 2. They have now though...
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
(Edit) I misunderstood you. Didn't realize you were describing my suggested controller response. I thought you were talking about my statement of testing controller-supervisor relationship. I can see how a bit of humor could protect a pilot versus describing the deviation within earshot of the supervisor.
I think controllers should use everything in their toolbox to get a pilot's attention when they make a mistake. I think this case is different. Not sure a FAR has been broken here.
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dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
Not really. The size of all the 135 ops put together probably still pales in comparison to the biggest 121 carrier. United, Delta, American, etc. take up far more airspace at any given time.
Anyway...
I felt the controller was rude, but I let that slide off my back. Controllers are human too, and are just as apt to have a bad day.
I think he meant that an individual IFR aircraft still needs three miles or 1,000 feet not the whole fleet versus one another.
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
I suppose, but that's really not seeing the forest for the trees. 121 makes up most of the traffic load in the US. Not to mention, we only need 3 miles behind a Lear, but a Lear needs 6 miles behind us.
In terms of total and individual aircraft operations, we do take up more space.
Anyway, who cares? This "fair share" stuff is for politicians and airline managers. I just fly the jet and collect paychecks.
I_Money
Moderator
What most of you fail to forget, 10 years ago Mile Square Park was an old WWII airfield with runways that was visible for miles - today it is a park with golf courses and while I haven't flown over it in a while, I can not imagine it is a good visual landmark like it once was - however they still use it. Also it is an infrequently used landmark, as normally coming from the north north east I got straight in, from the west we flew in from the pier. I can see how someone could require a vector to help out.
Secondly, I think it is important everyone works together - good communication and cohesive teamwork is what is needed for safety. If someone needs help, give it to them and be friendly, if you can't ask them to circle. No big deal.
Sorry, but I dislike this notion. ATC isn't there to get you in trouble. A friend of mine got the phone number, he called up and the controller told him he clipped the edge of Class D airspace, my friend apologized informed him he was a new instructor in town, the controller told him not to worry about it, provided him a good landmark to use for future reference. He didn't ask him his name or anything. It was just a good learning experience. My wife is an attorney for a licensing agency - they don't want to take your license away, especially if it is your livelihood and the errors have to be pretty egregious to receive that. Heck look at all the guys forced down for flying into an TFR, they typically apologize and get out of it.
Secondly, I think it is important everyone works together - good communication and cohesive teamwork is what is needed for safety. If someone needs help, give it to them and be friendly, if you can't ask them to circle. No big deal.
Sorry, but I dislike this notion. ATC isn't there to get you in trouble. A friend of mine got the phone number, he called up and the controller told him he clipped the edge of Class D airspace, my friend apologized informed him he was a new instructor in town, the controller told him not to worry about it, provided him a good landmark to use for future reference. He didn't ask him his name or anything. It was just a good learning experience. My wife is an attorney for a licensing agency - they don't want to take your license away, especially if it is your livelihood and the errors have to be pretty egregious to receive that. Heck look at all the guys forced down for flying into an TFR, they typically apologize and get out of it.
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DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
And before you yell at UPS for being so slow you should know we are just following our flight plan. Many of our flights are now at cost index zero, meaning save gas at all costs. I recently flew a GEG-BFI in a 767 at about the same speed a Q400 does. I'm one to fly the plane the way the company wants unless told I need to do something different. If you ever need UPS to speed up, just ask.....
BEEF SUPREME
Well-Known Member
It is totally cool to disagree with me. My approach is a bit old school but getting involved with the FAA is pretty scary IMO.
Thanks for the information and I'll keep it in mind. The only time I notice a difference in FedEx or UPS performance vs other guys is when they hit the market and slow like 40 knots slower than everyone else. I understand this though because they have to make a 90 degree turn off the runway versus air carriers taking a high speed.
Zidac
Well-Known Member
DE727UPS
Well-Known Member
It's more likely they scare easier cause they been up all night. Slow down extra early and the fatigue doesn't show as much.
Screaming_Emu
Well-Known Member
I don't think it has anything to do with where you exit the runway. Approach speeds are based on aircraft weight. So what you calculate is what you fly. Everything else comes down to braking.