Republic TA

I wonder what the chance is that they'd end up at mainline. If no one can staff them long term, it might be the best way to handle it.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Contracts are complicated documents. The idea that they should just be thrown out there without explanation is nuts.
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I agree with you...HOWEVER...on the XJT TA there was quite the sell job that was happening. I didn't attend a road show, but from what I've heard and what I saw on the "online roadshow" videos, it was there as well.

But in theory, I agree completely. Some stuff is pretty complicated and needs explanation....and explanation only.
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
To which I responded, "why should be have to be spoon fed? A good TA will speak for itself, I can read, I'm college educated and I know if I like it when I see its contents.".
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You'd think so, but you'd be pretty wrong. Remember that a CBA is really just language describing HOW the day to day mechanisms of an airline operations (as it effects the pilots) will work. Even something as basic as looking at a pay rate table, without hearing the logic behind it, can cause a guy to stamp his feet and yell when he is in fact getting a large raise. You wouldn't believe the number of guys who came up to be to complain about something in the PSA TA. The very first thing I'd ask them is if they'd been a road show yet and 90% of the time the answer was no. Once I explained WHY language was written the way it was they mostly were happy about it.

Once it leaks, lots of guys are going to flip to Section 3 and check out their pay rate and then they are going to make up their mind if they are voting yes or no. News flash... with the regional industry the way it is right now, NOBODY is going to be getting 10% raises a year. Where the gains will be made is in Scheduling and Hours of Service.
 
surreal1221 said:
Or to spout the "talking points" from rote memorization. Cause, like, didn't you know - the talking points are the answers. Heaven forbid they depart from what they were advised to say by the holders of a JD.
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I'd say that departing from the advice of those with the J.D.'s is a huge problem in this industry. While in the end, clients make the decisions, in this union we've had people with a high school education making decisions for thousands of people, and the results have been terrible.

Kind of like how your MEC has a communications specialist right in front of them, but they won't listen because "they know better."
 
Well I guess we're splitting hairs a bit and I agree with screaming Emu. I just don't like the sell job that goes on. I can read the legal speak and am aware that a lot of this gears towards the lowest common denominator. Now every TA, company, and situation is different. In our case our union chose to bypass all but four articles to expedite the process (this decision was made prior to DB's intervention). One of those bypassed articles (I can't remember the number) includes the stipulations regarding our medical benefits. So essentially the company can increase our premiums as they see fit to offset any pay raises. Another no-go item for me is that under the 'leaked' TA the pilot has to be contactable, meaning you can be reassigned after getting to the hotel. Now the second item hasn't been confirmed, but if it is in there it's a BIG problem. I actually do read between the lines and can comprehend what I'm voting on.

So just to circle back, I guess I do understand the road show. But I don't like the need to sell it vs letting it sell itself. Insert the pig with lip stick metaphor.
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
Another no-go item for me is that under the 'leaked' TA the pilot has to be contactable, meaning you can be reassigned after getting to the hotel. Now the second item hasn't been confirmed, but if it is in there it's a BIG problem. I actually do read between the lines and can comprehend what I'm voting on.
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This was also in the XJT TA. Im not sure how this is legal since a rest period is supposed to be free from all assignment.
 
I don't mean to drift the thread but contact-ability in the hotel is something my company is taking baby steps to take back. They can leave you phone messages at any time but it's not considered contact since they didn't call you. They are saying "you should answer your phone on a layover outside legal crew rest cause me might be us telling you about a family emergency". When you log onto the crew scheduling web site they can force you to see an advisement to move on but it's not considered "contact". Our contract clearly states we don't have to be contactable on a layover but that doesn't keep them from trying. Just wondering how other airlines do it.
 
HVYMETALDRVR said:
Another no-go item for me is that under the 'leaked' TA the pilot has to be contactable, meaning you can be reassigned after getting to the hotel. Now the second item hasn't been confirmed, but if it is in there it's a BIG problem. I actually do read between the lines and can comprehend what I'm voting on.
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Part 117 does not allow you to be removed from rest once the parking brake is set and there are no further intentions of flight. So if you have not been contacted prior to brake set on your last flight, they cannot touch you until your rest period is over. They cannot require you to answer the phone on rest as that is duty. They can call and you can voluntarily answer but that is up to you.

The problem with being contactable like the FAs is that you will basically be treated like a reserve while on duty.
 
flyinggreasemnky said:
Part 117 does not allow you to be removed from rest once the parking brake is set and there are no further intentions of flight. So if you have not been contacted prior to brake set on your last flight, they cannot touch you until your rest period is over. They cannot require you to answer the phone on rest as that is duty. They can call and you can voluntarily answer but that is up to you.

The problem with being contactable like the FAs is that you will basically be treated like a reserve while on duty.
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Too late. I didn't fly one scheduled leg of my last 4 day.
 
jtrain609 said:
Too late. I didn't fly one scheduled leg of my last 4 day.
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So it's not just me then... I flew 2 legs of my original pairing. Reassigned due to cx overnight and BAM! Basically back on rsv for the rest of the trip. It's complete garbage.
 
jonny said:
So it's not just me then... I flew 2 legs of my original pairing. Reassigned due to cx overnight and BAM! Basically back on rsv for the rest of the trip. It's complete garbage.
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They lost me twice on my last trip, and that was after I emailed them and told them where I was!
 
ozziecat35 said:
Can someone explain rigs to a dumb 240 hr commercial pilot?
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Rigs are normally the "greater of" so to see what you get paid for a day (or a trip) you need to check your actual time flown, the block time (if you have something like block or better pay), and then all the rigs you have to see what your actual credit will be.

Duty Rig: You get X hours of pay for every X hours of duty. Normally it's something like 1:2.5. This rig penalizes the company for making you have long sits between flights.

Trip rig (also called "trip averaging" at some shops): A two day trip is worth at least X hours, a 3 day trip is worth X hours etc. This is sometimes linked to a "min day" rig where, if you show up for work you get a minimum of X hours of pay. In cases where it is linked a 2 day trip is worth 2X hours and a 3 day trip would be worth 3X hours.

Time Away From Base rig: You get X hours of pay for every X hours TAFB. The nice thing about this rig is that if you spend a whole lot of time sitting in a hotel (say, you fly one 8 hour leg, have a 48 hour overnight and then fly one 8 hour leg home) you at least get some credit for sitting around the hotel for 2 days.

For a practical example, where I'm at now, we have Block or Better, a duty rig (that pays 60% of our duty hours for a day) and a 4:10 min day. We also have a 6 minute "landing credit" that gets applied to each landing (and since we often do 8+ landing days, it adds up). It's all day trips so we don't have any sort of Trip Rig (other than min day) or TAFB Rig (because duty time=TAFB).

So to see what we credit on a given day we:

-First have to compare what we actually flew with what each leg was scheduled to be worth. If what we actually flew was LESS than what we were scheduled we get what were were scheduled. If what we actually flew was MORE than what was scheduled we get what we actually flew. That's the "block or better" provision.

-Next we total up all the legs we flew and then add in an additional 6 minutes for each leg flown.

-If that number is LESS than 4:10 our credit is 4:10 for the day. If that number is MORE than 4:10, we get whatever that number is for the day.

-Finally, we multiply our duty time (from check in 30 minutes prior to the first flight to 15 minutes after the last block in for "debrief") by .6 to check the Duty Rig. If that number is larger than our block or better credit (or our min day credit if that's what we are using) then we get the Duty Rig credit for the day.

Hopefully that makes some sense.
 
BobDDuck said:
Hopefully that makes some sense.
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It does, thanks! As a pilot, what is a "fair" setup? ie do you guys prefer duty over trip rigs, my guess is that it will vary based on your schedule and other unforeseen occurrences such as weather or mx. What's the threshold where you would start saying , "Yeah, that's a good rig" vs "WTF, where's my pitchfork?!"
 
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