Republic letter to Pilots

Screaming_Emu said:
If that's what you're doing...you're a terrible instructor and should refund the student money.
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Not going to lie, of my three students, one was pretty stellar. When we did night x-try I was a CFI for about 15 minutes of the neary 2 hour flight.

I wrote out a big thesis on my holier-than-thou opinion on CFI's however I came up with this instead:
Knowledge + application = skillset.
Apply it how you see fit.
 
Nark said:
Not going to lie, of my three students, one was pretty stellar. When we did night x-try I was a CFI for about 15 minutes of the neary 2 hour flight.

I wrote out a big thesis on my holier-than-thou opinion on CFI's however I came up with this instead:
Knowledge + application = skillset.
Apply it how you see fit.
Click to expand...

Right, but It honk the person who typed it was implying that trips around the pattern are pretty useless as a CFI. We've all had that student that somehow gets everything on the first try, but that's when you move on to some of the higher levels of learning.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
Right, but It honk the person who typed it was implying that trips around the pattern are pretty useless as a CFI. We've all had that student that somehow gets everything on the first try, but that's when you move on to some of the higher levels of learning.
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If you're referring to what I said...you're wrong.

I am in no way saying that instructing isn't good experience. However, as most cfis can attest, there isn't a ton of "stick and rudder" flying like people are implying. Especially if you are an instrument instructor. You touch the controls...what...25% of the time?

My only point is that flying sic for 135 cargo is great experience if it were reformed and set up right.

Picture this...I'm gonna get great at driving a car. How? Well I'm gonna teach kids how to drive a go cart all day. Sure we'll be on the roads and following the rules, but we're gonna stay in town.

Edit: just tried to start the go cart and its out of gas!
 
jgheggie said:
If you're referring to what I said...you're wrong.

I am in no way saying that instructing isn't good experience. However, as most cfis can attest, there isn't a ton of "stick and rudder" flying like people are implying. Especially if you are an instrument instructor. You touch the controls...what...25% of the time?

My only point is that flying sic for 135 cargo is great experience if it were reformed and set up right.

Picture this...I'm gonna get great at driving a car. How? Well I'm gonna teach kids how to drive a go cart all day. Sure we'll be on the roads and following the rules, but we're gonna stay in town.

Edit: just tried to start the go cart and its out of gas!
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I still say you're wrong. For two reasons.

1) If you're doing it right there is plenty of stick and rudder. Demonstrations, saved landings, "here, let's do one together."

My stick and rudder skills increased greatly as a CFI.

2) Stick and rudder skills are the easiest thing to master about flying. If you look at most accidents and incidents, much of the underlying cause is usually poor decision making and/or lack of knowledge. Both of these things are very much challenged and improved as a CFI.

Very very few accidents are caused by "well, he just dorked up the landing."
 
Screaming_Emu said:
I still say you're wrong. For two reasons.

1) If you're doing it right there is plenty of stick and rudder. Demonstrations, saved landings, "here, let's do one together."

My stick and rudder skills increased greatly as a CFI.

2) Stick and rudder skills are the easiest thing to master about flying. If you look at most accidents and incidents, much of the underlying cause is usually poor decision making and/or lack of knowledge. Both of these things are very much challenged and improved as a CFI.

Very very few accidents are caused by "well, he just dorked up the landing."
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Of course your skills got better. You got more experience flying.

So on that premise...how could you NOT get better by flying 135 cargo?

I'm not debating that cfi'ing is good experience. I'm debating that paid airline "internships" with 135 cargo would ALSO be good experience. I just happen to think it would be better experience.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Having flown with both as my FOs, I can tell you that sometimes the wonderkid is better, in fact.
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Motivation - a willing to learn wunderkind with no experience is often better than the know-it-all 1500TT CFI.

That said, on average I would suspect that more experience correlates to better performance.
 
jgheggie said:
Picture this...I'm gonna get great at driving a car. How? Well I'm gonna teach kids how to drive a go cart all day. Sure we'll be on the roads and following the rules, but we're gonna stay in town.

Edit: just tried to start the go cart and its out of gas!
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So driving between towns makes one a better driver? The most I've ever learned about riding a motorcycle was during time spent on a race track. Yes, riding in circles made me massively more proficient as a rider. Flying in circles can do the same thing... It's entirely up to the operator.
 
This thread has derailed. First, to contribute to the derailment, you should not just flight instruct and go to an airline. You should flight instruct, potentially banner tow or traffic watch on the weekends or sometime while you flight instruct. Then, go to survey or 135 where you can hit up more experience and airspace. Then an airline may be in your future. There are other low time options in there too. I'm not saying that's the only way. Now the odds that you are a better pilot at 1500 hours than you were at 500 are greatly increased. It's hard to get to all the mins just doing one thing for a reason...

Now the REAL point that many young pilots and even experienced pilots contributing to this derailment, which I am now guilty, are missing. Young pilots, this is a great changing point in the industry. As low time pilots, while very hard to break into the industry, once you get a more steady low time job, or consistent part time jobs, you will probably be making as much or more than first year and second year regional pay.

The opportunity is upon us by waiting, and not complaining, to 1500 hours we will be paid more and not actually take a pay cut when we move to the regionals. Also, by waiting, regionals make less sense and downsize while mainline takes more flying back. Now when we get to the regionals, along with attrition more mainline positions are available due to taking flying back, and we spend less time at the regionals.

You may feel jaded now but if the ATP rule drops to 500 hours we will be back in the same position we were before. Young starry eyed college grads will do everything they can to flock to the regionals, get paid the same or worse than we are now, spend more time at the regionals for that reason, and in my opinion, are less qualified because they didn't experience as much of aviation as they could have.

Our sacrifice, if you call getting paid more than you would a sacrifice, will pay off to better futures for everyone.
 
I agree with FlyDutchman.

While I am a low time pilot that would like to fly for the airlines, I completely understand the 1500hr rule and do not endorse it being dropped. I just personally feel like it doesn't do enough to prevent accidents such as the Colgan flight. I think it was an easy way of shutting up critics of airline safety.

Quality, not quantity.
 
If they really wanted to combat deficiencies they would revamp initial and recurrent training. But there will always be some that slip through the cracks no matter what you do.
 
The 1500 hour rule is stupid, that is what happens when airlines can't police themselfs. The 1500 hour rule still doesn't fix the problem, mainline hires the person regionals hire the logbook. Now the logbook just has to have 1500 doesn't mean it is a good hire.
 
Gonzo said:
The 1500 hour rule is stupid, that is what happens when airlines can't police themselfs. The 1500 hour rule still doesn't fix the problem, mainline hires the person regionals hire the logbook. Now the logbook just has to have 1500 doesn't mean it is a good hire.
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You need to draw the line somewhere. 250 hours for a commercial is just as arbitrary. As a guy with nearly 3200 of dual given, I can say that I was a much better pilot at 1500 hours than I was at 250 hours. If you aren't learning and improving, you aren't doing it right.
 
Well said Dutch. I still really don't get how this wisdom can fly past people so easily. Although I dunno, maybe I was the same at, you know, 12 or whatever.
 
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