Do part 142 checkrides failures get reported to the FAA?
- Thread starter Maxemo
- Start date
unclenobby
Well-Known Member
You can request a copy of your records from the FAA. Take the guess work out.
elmetal
Ain't nobody got time for that
how how how?????????????
USAviationRecruiter
Well-Known Member
If you plan on working for an airline they ask about failures, including 141 and 142 failures so even if it's not reported your own honesty may disqualify you. Unfortunately, I have seen pilots who were turned down because of multiple failures at both 141 and 142 schools.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
Sure.If they're not in the records, then honesty = stupidity in that case
On the other hand, the question is often "Have you EVER failed a training event?"
Integrity matters a boat-load in this business.
Patrick
Well-Known Member
Not to condone the idea of being dishonest, but everyone should understand what does and does not come back during a PRIA records search.
If you are (as it sounds) someone who has never worked for a 121 or 135 air carrier before (or within the last 5 years), the only part of PRIA that will apply to you is what your new airline will get from the FAA.
All they will get from the FAA is a one page letter showing your current certificates (i.e. Commercial Pilot AMEL ASEL), CFI certs (if you hold any), A&P certs (again, if you hold any), medical class and date, and whether you either have violations or suspensions, or are currently under investigation. That's it.
Knowing that some pilots actually understand the above, I have heard that some regionals are asking applications to fill out a Freedom of Information (FOIA) request, which will allow the FAA to send them copies of EVERY record that they have on you. This will include written test results, 8710s, actual checkride results (disapproval, discontinuances, etc) from Part 61 training events, and I'm not quite sure what shows up in this process from 141/142. Given the fact that "stage checks" under 141 are not considered checkrides (at least by the FAA), my assumption here would be that all that anyone gets from a 141/142 school would be a "graduation completion" type of document, stating that you finished their program with a Commercial pilot cert.
While we can all agree that this industry and profession is about honesty and integrity, in this day and age where everyone worries about liability (no one more so than airline HR departments) and bad PR issues (which has virtually come to the point of "OMG!!!! You farted sideways in your sleep once?!??!! We can't hire you because of that!!!!!!!), the flip side of this, is that if someone is never going to find out about something that you did, which has zero basis on on your ability to perform an essential job function, 13 years ago, one can argue that it's not entirely in your best interest to tell them.
In the end, do what you feel is right.
If you are (as it sounds) someone who has never worked for a 121 or 135 air carrier before (or within the last 5 years), the only part of PRIA that will apply to you is what your new airline will get from the FAA.
All they will get from the FAA is a one page letter showing your current certificates (i.e. Commercial Pilot AMEL ASEL), CFI certs (if you hold any), A&P certs (again, if you hold any), medical class and date, and whether you either have violations or suspensions, or are currently under investigation. That's it.
Knowing that some pilots actually understand the above, I have heard that some regionals are asking applications to fill out a Freedom of Information (FOIA) request, which will allow the FAA to send them copies of EVERY record that they have on you. This will include written test results, 8710s, actual checkride results (disapproval, discontinuances, etc) from Part 61 training events, and I'm not quite sure what shows up in this process from 141/142. Given the fact that "stage checks" under 141 are not considered checkrides (at least by the FAA), my assumption here would be that all that anyone gets from a 141/142 school would be a "graduation completion" type of document, stating that you finished their program with a Commercial pilot cert.
While we can all agree that this industry and profession is about honesty and integrity, in this day and age where everyone worries about liability (no one more so than airline HR departments) and bad PR issues (which has virtually come to the point of "OMG!!!! You farted sideways in your sleep once?!??!! We can't hire you because of that!!!!!!!), the flip side of this, is that if someone is never going to find out about something that you did, which has zero basis on on your ability to perform an essential job function, 13 years ago, one can argue that it's not entirely in your best interest to tell them.
In the end, do what you feel is right.
SpiceWeasel
Tre Kronor
Terrible advice!
First of all, disclose everything you can, be honest, up front, and own mistakes.
Multiple failures in 141 or 142 mean we have bigger problems than just worrying about disclosing a failed checkride.
I hope none of your candidates have had to go home with their tails between their legs when they got pulled out of class because of something the airline found out.
Houston
Well-Known Member
It depends on what is failed. If it is the written test or anything else that isn't a certificate action then no. If it is a certification event (e.g. a type rating course) and the "failure" is the end of course practical test, then yes. Another way of saying that is if you filled out an 8710-1 to take the test and you received either a temporary certificate or a notice of disapproval (aka pink slip) at the end of the test, then the event is recorded in the FAA's database.
Patrick
Well-Known Member
You are correct in that this gets recorded in the FAA database, however, as I mentioned above, this information is not part of what is disclosed by the FAA during a PRIA records request.
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
Caution is advised in parsing what applications and interviews are asking for...
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Maybe. Seen some pretty wacky stuff from 141 check airmen, and I'd hate for something like that from a pre-solo stage check follow a student.
Houston
Well-Known Member
The OP's question was:
Which is what my answer addressed. However, your statement that the failure of a practical test as part of a 142 course is not included in PRIA reports got me curious. I have a feeling we are talking about two different kinds of "failure". Could you elaborate a bit more on your statement.
Patrick
Well-Known Member
Failures of any kind, regardless of 61,142, 142, 121,135, etc, while SOME are reported to the FAA's database, do not get reported to an air carrier on the FAA's version of a PRIA report.
Now, if you failed a checkride under part 135 or 121 training, it depends whether this gets reported to the FAA. If it was just a PC, this is not considered a "Certificate Event," and does not make it onto the FAA's database. If it is something like an upgrade (thus PIC type rating), transition (new type rating), or ATP checkride as part of any of the above, this is considered a "Certificate Event," and will wind up on the FAA's database.
Regardless, if the above 121/135 training failure was within the last 5 years, the new air carrier will see this when they get the former air carrier's records under PRIA, but this is still NOT on the FAA's report issued to the new air carrier under PRIA.
Houston
Well-Known Member
I'm sorry, but I'm getting lost in your wording. I think what you're trying to say is that the FAA provides everything it has in the report, but that not everything that is done in training / testing / checking is reported by the carrier to the FAA. Is that a correct interpretation of your statement?
Here is what AC 120-68F Paragraph 1-7a says in regards to what the FAA expects the operator to request and what the FAA provides:
Autothrust Blue
Welcome aboard the Washington State Ferries
genot
Well-Known Member
You struck a chord with me. My 141 pre solo stage check was failed because while I managed to tune in a VOR 40 miles away and dial in a radial by guessing, I could not intercept and track the FROM radial. I didn't know any better then to argue it or know why it was in no way relevant. A case of you don't know what you don't know I suppose. 13 years later I'm still at a loss as to what that had to do with a solo.
I have nothing of value to contribute, sorry for the side track.
I went through a 141 school (UND), and was told that most employers only expect people to report failures of stage checks that result in the issuance of a certificate or rating.
AFAIK, the only records the FAA has concerning 141 stage checks are for the ones that grant a certificate or rating, and if an employer wanted to find records about something like a pre-solo check, they'd either need to get a copy of the relevant TCO from the school and go through the logbook in detail, or get the training records from the flight school, which is very unlikely due to the liability it exposes the flight school to.
AFAIK, the only records the FAA has concerning 141 stage checks are for the ones that grant a certificate or rating, and if an employer wanted to find records about something like a pre-solo check, they'd either need to get a copy of the relevant TCO from the school and go through the logbook in detail, or get the training records from the flight school, which is very unlikely due to the liability it exposes the flight school to.