Call me old fashioned...

[ChasenSFO]

Also correct me if I'm wrong (and I likely am). But wasn't one of the reasons why sone airlines stopped using the 727 because it would have cost to much to retrofit the hush kits? At least that's what I saw from an annual report from DAL or UAL back in 2002ish.

Well, I think it was more about the 3rd engine and 3rd pilot that had all the US Majors dump the 727s in a hurry after 9/11.

 

[A Life Aloft]

Didn't really realize how big a nerd I was until this thread.

LOL....Meh..... it's a big club then. I read what you had posted and went oh yeah I kinda remember that..(nerd antenna went up).....then asked my sister the former TA (our TA now) who said oh helll yeah and rambled on about them a bit.

 

[DE727UPS]

They trained people for the pax operation in reverse seniority order. I was a senior F/O and managed to never have to do it. There were a lot of problems with getting the planes converted and de-converted in time for their respective roles. Also, they sold the flights to the cruise lines without much thought to the capability of the aircraft. Boston to Punta Cancun or whatever just didn't work. Often a fuel stop in Miami was a necessity and people just didn't dig it. The pax operation lasted a couple of years but is generally considered a failure, even by management. No hush kit, it was the Rolls Royce Tay conversion which met Stage III mins. The funny S duct was due to the engine mod.

 

[A Life Aloft]

Well, I think it was more about the 3rd engine and 3rd pilot that had all the US Majors dump the 727s in a hurry after 9/11.

Yeppers,three man cockpit and the noise and fuel factors as well. Plus the requirement went away to have three engines on off coast flights.

 

[A Life Aloft]

They trained people for the pax operation in reverse seniority order. I was a senior F/O and managed to never have to do it. There were a lot of problems with getting the planes converted and de-converted in time for their respective roles. Also, they sold the flights to the cruise lines without much thought to the capability of the aircraft. Boston to Punta Cancun or whatever just didn't work. Often a fuel stop in Miami was a necessity and people just didn't dig it. The pax operation lasted a couple of years but is generally considered a failure, even by management. No hush kit, it was the Rolls Royce Tay conversion which met Stage III mins. The funny S duct was due to the engine mod.

How were the seats done? Were they staged and locked in place on a palletized system of some sort that they just rolled in the aircraft? What did they do about the overhead bins, lights, air vents? How many pax could they seat? (Just over a hundred I would imagine???) I thought they were making decent money. (what do I remember) Surprising.

 

[ChasenSFO]

Yeppers,three man cockpit and the noise and fuel factosr as well. Plus the requirement went away to have three engines on off coast flights.

Shame, that was one sexy airplane.

 

[MQAAord]

How were the seats done? Were they staged and locked in place on a palletized system of some sort that they just rolled in the aircraft? What did they do about the overhead bins, lights, air vents? How many pax could they seat? (Just over a hundred I would imagine???) I thought they were making decent money. (what do I remember) Surprising.

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/04/27/b...a-new-package-deal.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm A NYT article from 1997 that tells a bit about the operation.

 

[A Life Aloft]

Shame, that was one sexy airplane.

It really was and it was the main workhorse of the carriers for just decades.They could take her into the smallest fields, had a decent range domestically and she was just reliable as as could be. Noisy as all get out though. Even the slat motors were loud as hell. But with the triple trailing flaps and the huge ass leading edge, they were really cool.

 

[A Life Aloft]

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/04/27/b...a-new-package-deal.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm A NYT article from 1997 that tells a bit about the operation.

Cool, thanks for finding that. I had forgotten about a galley too. Man, that must have been something to see. 3 hours for a conversion? Wish we could find some pics of what the components and how they were bundled/configured looked like. Pretty interesting.

 

[DE727UPS]

I loved the jet. I'm just way past having to deal with the self loading cargo. Too much drama. Boxes don't complain....

 

[ChasenSFO]

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/04/27/b...a-new-package-deal.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm A NYT article from 1997 that tells a bit about the operation.

Starts with:

BIG and brown like a United Parcel Service truck, and about as boring

 

[JordanD]

Jeez, nostalgia city. I remember having UPS 727 desktop models as a kid.. That I of course played with and broke.

 

[Area 5150]

<-------- really is a 727 geek!

 

[Whatusername]

It really was and it was the main workhorse of the carriers for just decades.They could take her into the smallest fields, had a decent range domestically and she was just reliable as as could be. Noisy as all get out though. Even the slat motors were loud as hell. But with the triple trailing flaps and the huge ass leading edge, they were really cool.

Again I might be wrong here. But IF I can recall wasn't the 727 the successor to the 707? Well if not for the fact that the 737 did so well.

 

[ChasenSFO]

Again I might be wrong here. But IF I can recall wasn't the 727 the successor to the 707? Well if not for the fact that the 737 did so well.

Meh, yes and no. The 727 didn't really have the legs to be a 707 "replacement", keep in mind the things were doing routes like San Francisco to Tokyo. It did free up the 707s from domestic flying once the 727s entered the fleets. But a Boeing 720 replacement, maybe, which many people regarded as a 707.

 

[Whatusername]

Meh, yes and no. The 727 didn't really have the legs to be a 707 "replacement", keep in mind the things were doing routes like San Francisco to Tokyo. It did free up the 707s from domestic flying once the 727s entered the fleets. But a Boeing 720 replacement, maybe, which many people regarded as a 707.

Well crap! Shows what I know about aviation trivia. But let's face it the 727 was awesome. Heck even when Trump defiled one it still looked fine (on the outside).

I would launch into another story about my love of the 727 but I'll save it for later.

 

[Whatusername]

I flew for Subair for a while, but not out in Nebraskastan. Really good company.

First it's not Nebraskastan. I have some issues with central NE. But I have some very fond memories of it too. Plus there are some decent driving roads out there (save it for PM or an NJC).

For Subair send me a PM on the details. I might go for that place er someday. I have no issues leaving KOMA to do a KHSI/KGRI stint if pay and QOL is right. Especially if I have to do a KHSI or KGRI run!

 

[WacoFan]

Meh, yes and no. The 727 didn't really have the legs to be a 707 "replacement", keep in mind the things were doing routes like San Francisco to Tokyo. It did free up the 707s from domestic flying once the 727s entered the fleets. But a Boeing 720 replacement, maybe, which many people regarded as a 707.

My grandpa loved flying the 720.

 

[jwp_145]

Well crap! Shows what I know about aviation trivia. But let's face it the 727 was awesome. Heck even when Trump defiled one it still looked fine (on the outside).

View attachment 24948

I would launch into another story about my love of the 727 but I'll save it for later.

Hey Whatusername... There were multiple conversion kits for 727s to larger/different engines over the years.
The most popular from a pilot perspective seems to be the VALSAN modification. They replaces the #1 and #3 engines with the engines from a Super80 (JT8D-219), which were significantly bigger, more powerful, etc. In the VALSAN conversion they left the #2 engine alone, so the aircraft actually operated with 2 different variants of engine (if you can call them variants... mostly they are different engines and I'm not sure any parts carry over between the two). The reason for not replacing the center engine was the cost for reworking the structure and the extremely expensive proposition of designing an S-Duct to provide ample air for the much larger -219 engines.

From what I've read, the VALSAN 727s were absolute rocket ships. It turned a great plane into a greater plane!

If you google VALSAN 727 you'll find some good reads about it.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

Hey Whatusername... There were multiple conversion kits for 727s to larger/different engines over the years.
The most popular from a pilot perspective seems to be the VALSAN modification. They replaces the #1 and #3 engines with the engines from a Super80 (JT8D-219), which were significantly bigger, more powerful, etc. In the VALSAN conversion they left the #2 engine alone, so the aircraft actually operated with 2 different variants of engine (if you can call them variants... mostly they are different engines and I'm not sure any parts carry over between the two). The reason for not replacing the center engine was the cost for reworking the structure and the extremely expensive proposition of designing an S-Duct to provide ample air for the much larger -219 engines.

From what I've read, the VALSAN 727s were absolute rocket ships. It turned a great plane into a greater plane!

If you google VALSAN 727 you'll find some good reads about it.

The UPS conversion was a different conversion. They put RR Tay's on the 727, all 3 engines. Doing so required a rework of the S-Duct. As for performance, I've got no idea.