Pilot Records Database

"...creation of the pilot records database, which would compile everything about every pilot’s flying record in one place."

Because there isn't already enough pressure on young pilots to pass their check rides on the first attempt :/
 
Only people that have to be worried about this are the ones lying on their job applications about checkride failures... I don't see what the big deal is here... o_O
 
The stakes are not the same. Creating a shared database could put more emphasis on that one arbitrary piece of that interview process and make it enforced.

I see many great pilots fail rides for stupid reasons, usually an Instructor or Examiner issue. I just hope this does not make the problem worse.
 
USAviationRecruiter said:
The stakes are not the same. Creating a shared database could put more emphasis on that one arbitrary piece of that interview process and make it enforced.

I see many great pilots fail rides for stupid reasons, usually an Instructor or Examiner issue. I just hope this does not make the problem worse.
Click to expand...
This...
The liability the airlines face now for pilots with failed rides is higher these days. Because of the media, the airlines will be more prone to hire a pilot with 1,500 hours and no failure over one with 5,000 and a failed checkride 10 years before.....sad deal.

Also, I fear that examiners will have a tendacy to go light because of the long-term effects a failure will have on a protential professional pilots.
 
dustoff17 said:
This...
The liability the airlines face now for pilots with failed rides is higher these days. Because of the media, the airlines will be more prone to hire a pilot with 1,500 hours and no failure over one with 5,000 and a failed checkride 10 years before.....sad deal.

Also, I fear that examiners will have a tendacy to go light because of the long-term effects a failure will have on a protential professional pilots.
Click to expand...

Once again, checkride failures has been a pretty common interview question for quite some time. It does have (possibly) more ramifications post-Colgan 3407, but whether there's a database to track such things or not is irrelevant. Applicants should be truthful and forthcoming with such information, and if they are not and outed I'm pretty certain they are pulled out of class and canned.

To say there will be more stress in check rides now than before, just because they will tracked, is a bit of a reach I think. The stakes are the same. The game may have changed, with the media of today, but unless you have been lying on applications, nothing will change out of this.
 
FlyingPoke said:
Once again, checkride failures has been a pretty common interview question for quite some time. It does have (possibly) more ramifications post-Colgan 3407, but whether there's a database to track such things or not is irrelevant. Applicants should be truthful and forthcoming with such information, and if they are not and outed I'm pretty certain they are pulled out of class and canned.

To say there will be more stress in check rides now than before, just because they will tracked, is a bit of a reach I think. The stakes are the same. The game may have changed, with the media of today, but unless you have been lying on applications, nothing will change out of this.
Click to expand...
I'm never stated that an applicant should lie about it, of course they shouldn't!

What I stated was the fact that a person having a previous failure NEVER had the same impact on a career as it does now. The question was always there but the media backlash and new company liability on this issue has changed things.

And the stakes on failed checkrides are not the same, never will be again. Now a failure at age seventeen could impact your ability to be hired at 25. That changes how checkrides are approached, the stress associated with it and the evaluations.
 
A lot of great pilots have a check ride failure, some even have two, three or four. There is a member here that has four pink slips from his 61/141 training. He would never be hire able today.

A lot of bad pilots have zero bust and a lot of good pilots have a few. A lot of it is more about the DPE then the pilot.

FYI: I think at last count he has 6 types and was a check airmen on two.
 
dustoff17 said:
And the stakes on failed checkrides are not the same, never will be again. Now a failure at age seventeen could impact your ability to be hired at 25. That changes how checkrides are approached, the stress associated with it and the evaluations.
Click to expand...

Ok, so if the stakes have changed, how about my two failed rides from the early 2000's? Am I held any less accountable than a current student will be if he busts one? The ramifications are the same, failures 'in my day' were still frowned upon and closed certain doors.

I understand you believe today, people are much more sensitive to failures. I agree with that. But, we are all in the same boat as far as having to explain checkride failures (or worse) in job interviews, no matter how long ago they were. We will all be held accountable (theoretically), as we should be.
 
I am afraid to say that this definitely makes the act of taking checkrides a lot more stressful. I have one checkride bust. I was just inexperienced and made a stupid error on my PPL checkride. I learned a valuable lesson from it and moved on. Now the fact that I already have 1 checkride bust makes taking other checkrides extremely nerve wracking. If I bust one more then that means I am at 2... Which could possibly keep me from getting hired somewhere. It is impossible to not have that in the back of your mind a little bit when you are taking another checkride. It has honestly made me second guess getting all of my CFI ratings. Chances are, I will bust the CFI oral. The odds are against me. Of course I am going to bust my tail to pass it, but the fact is, if the fed wants to bust me on the oral he can definitely do it. Then I am at 2 checkride bust. Would it even be worth the risk to retake the checkride and possibly busy again? If I did and for some freak reason busted it then my entire career would probably be ruined before it even started. I am certainly not God's gift to aviation, but I certainly feel like I could continue to grow and be a safe and professional pilot in the airlines or corporate etc.

This honestly has me somewhat at a crossroads about even venturing into the CFI stuff. Even if most airlines expect to see a busted CFI initial, when I am filling out an electronic app and put that I have 2 checkride bust, my application would probably automatically get tossed out by automatic filters.

I know this post is long and probably somewhat jumbled. I was just sort of randomly spewing what was on my mind. I have been really troubled by this entire checkride bust talk brought up a lot lately by the Colgan crash and some other things.
 
I have 2 busts and it never was an issue.

Now I'm going to admit not knowing the facts but didn't the pilot in question have 121 recurrent busts not just checkrides while doing primary training? Please correct me if that is wrong.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 
desertdog71 said:
I have 2 busts and it never was an issue.

Now I'm going to admit not knowing the facts but didn't the pilot in question have 121 recurrent busts not just checkrides while doing primary training? Please correct me if that is wrong.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
No, you are correct. the issue here is not that a pilot "had a few busts in their career", the issue is that the public is NOW more aware, the media blasted the fact that the airline knew of the busts, and the airline will be "on the hook" for hiring these pilots. It's not the same as before 3407, things have changed with regards to checkride/performace failures.

FlyingPoke said:
Ok, so if the stakes have changed, how about my two failed rides from the early 2000's? Am I held any less accountable than a current student will be if he busts one? The ramifications are the same, failures 'in my day' were still frowned upon and closed certain doors.

I understand you believe today, people are much more sensitive to failures. I agree with that. But, we are all in the same boat as far as having to explain checkride failures (or worse) in job interviews, no matter how long ago they were. We will all be held accountable (theoretically), as we should be.
Click to expand...
Yeah, yeah, yeah, and your bust were uphill, in the snow, no shoes...I get it. Your busts were pre-3407!

The ramifications are NOT the same because now the media, the public in general, the lawyers, and the airlines are more sensitive to the subject. These days (not in your time, mind you) you not only have to explain any checkride failures but you'll have to accept that they might be the reason you don't get the job. THIS is ALL I was trying to convey.
 
Most certainly examiners will go lighter on candidates as well as airline training programs due to the potential impact a failure can have. What do you do about the those already in the airlines? Do you wipe the slate clean for those already flying or do you hold their bust(s) against them as well, also how do you score the failures? Will they score all failure the same making a initial CFI failure the same as a busted type rating or license ride? We all know there are guys with failures on their records for the simple fact a Check Airman or FAA Examiner had a bad day or needed a failure for his stats.

Some FSDO bat an 80% or higher failure rate on CFI rides. Could this lead to less people becoming a CFI?

I see this all as a knee jerk reaction by people that don't know a lot about the industry. The 1500 hour rule, just like the TSA, is all smoke and mirrors to appease the general public.
 
Gonzo said:
A lot of it is more about the DPE then the pilot.
Click to expand...

To a point, yes. But by in large, a history of failed checkrides shows a pattern. I don't think however that so much weight should be placed on it. A 5000 hour guy with 6-7 years in the industry might have a failed checkride or three. a 1500 hour guy with a busted CFI initial.... I would consider those guys on the same level.


A guy with 3000 hours and three busted rides? What were they? Why'd he/she bust them?
 
I do think it's interesting that in the article the Colgan official claims they didn't know he had busts but didn't fault the pilot for lying. Which means they didn't ask. No matter how arbitrary I think it is I would still ask.

And this is just cringe-worthy:
“If you have a DUI, you don't get a job driving a school bus,” Kausner said. “We think it should be the same with pilots” who have blemishes on their flying record.

Granted, that's from a family member not an official but it illustrates the danger of public involvement into industry affairs.
 
USAviationRecruiter said:
I do think it's interesting that in the article the Colgan official claims they didn't know he had busts but didn't fault the pilot for lying. Which means they didn't ask. No matter how arbitrary I think it is I would still ask.

And this is just cringe-worthy:
“If you have a DUI, you don't get a job driving a school bus,” Kausner said. “We think it should be the same with pilots” who have blemishes on their flying record.

Granted, that's from a family member not an official but it illustrates the danger of public involvement into industry affairs.
Click to expand...
Except what they are really saying is if you've ever gotten a ticket you shouldn't be driving.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top