desertdog71
Girthy Member
I'm 42 and just got hired by a 121 company. I wouldn't discount any possibilities.
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Another career jumper...
- Thread starter 69_Bug_Dude
- Start date
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SteveCostello
My member is well-known.
I'll also echo what some other folks here have said about debt... this does NOT appear to be the industry to go into debt with. At least with most other professions, there is a comfortable chance of success at SOME point that will ultimately pay off. That guarantee simply does not exist in aviation. That especially holds true in 121, where if you lose a job for one reason or another (buyout, layoff, etc.), you are at the bottom of the totem pole again, and have to start all over.
My wife actually encouraged me to do ATP. "Well, $60K is THAT bad, we can do that, and you can start flying sooner. We'll just have to finance it." You know, a younger and dumber (and more selfish) me would have already jumped on that and been gone. I can't do that now. And I don't even have kids. It's just the two of us. I can't put my wife through the wringer for that. I just can't. So I'm doing it in a slower fashion, but one that I hope will ultimately pay off. It'll mean a lot of time spent at the airport... but at least that is only a 20 minute drive away... not a day's drive from my wife, not that you'd have time for that at ATP anyway.
Like others have said... be very wary of going into debt for this love affair. With the sole exception of buying an airplane, there's very little reason to do it, and it sounds like you have 7 very BIG reasons not to. (And even with buying an airplane, a partnership is a much more financially sound way to do it.)
Tons of advice from every angle. Some of it will apply to you, some of it won't. All of it is meant with the best of intentions (well, except for the occasional grumpy Gus, but at least JC != APC
). Good luck, and again... I'm happy to be part of a growing band of career changers on here!
My wife actually encouraged me to do ATP. "Well, $60K is THAT bad, we can do that, and you can start flying sooner. We'll just have to finance it." You know, a younger and dumber (and more selfish) me would have already jumped on that and been gone. I can't do that now. And I don't even have kids. It's just the two of us. I can't put my wife through the wringer for that. I just can't. So I'm doing it in a slower fashion, but one that I hope will ultimately pay off. It'll mean a lot of time spent at the airport... but at least that is only a 20 minute drive away... not a day's drive from my wife, not that you'd have time for that at ATP anyway.
Like others have said... be very wary of going into debt for this love affair. With the sole exception of buying an airplane, there's very little reason to do it, and it sounds like you have 7 very BIG reasons not to. (And even with buying an airplane, a partnership is a much more financially sound way to do it.)
Tons of advice from every angle. Some of it will apply to you, some of it won't. All of it is meant with the best of intentions (well, except for the occasional grumpy Gus, but at least JC != APC
). Good luck, and again... I'm happy to be part of a growing band of career changers on here!
SteveCostello
My member is well-known.
Yeah, but you've got hours on your side. I'm 42, and I have exactly 50.5 hours to my name... and the last time I officially logged hours was about 10 years ago. I'll start racking them up in about 3 weeks again, but... I'm WAY behind you. Way behind.
desertdog71
Girthy Member
Accruing debt is from people that can't handle money. So there is another blanket statement to counter your blanket statement about blanket statements.
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desertdog71
Girthy Member
And I was 35 with zero hours and just a dumbass trucker a few years ago. Now I'm a dumbass trucker with hours and good experience in my past. You'll get there, its only takes time and money.
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ozziecat35 and I were just down your way yesterday....We should have given you come mooney time while we were there.
I'm a bit older than that.... Had a PPL for 18 years but didn't do much with it. Started back knocking out ratings over the past year, all for cash, and should wrap up CFI / CFII / MEI later this year without borrowing anything. Then comes the decision of what I want to do to build up the hours.
SteveCostello
My member is well-known.
And since time = money, basically that means that all you need to get ahead in aviation is money and more money.
Seems about right!
SteveCostello
My member is well-known.
Shooot! The only airtime I have around a Mooney is when I've been putting along in a 152 and I see a hot streak whip past me. So jealous
ozziecat35
4 out of 5 great lakes prefer Michigan.
Shooot! The only airtime I have around a Mooney is when I've been putting along in a 152 and I see a hot streak whip past me. So jealous
We were moving right along...On the way back to Chicago at 9,000, 20/24 we were getting about 125 indicated and 145 over the ground.
desertdog71
Girthy Member
I'll be straight with you. I paid cash for my training and did it full time. I killed it on some real estate in Phoenix and sold at the top of the market.And since time = money, basically that means that all you need to get ahead in aviation is money and more money.
I'm no genius but I'm not a dumbass either and my synapses can fire without a 5 second delay and I'm pretty good at operating machinery. An airplane is just another machine. So the flying was easier for me than the ground stuff.
I worked pretty hard and there are no guarantees. I had to make my own way because there are no helping hands starting out. I have made some great connections along the way though and now in making my return to aviation, I've had a little help.
All that being said. I have a fall back position when things go bad. I have expertise in other areas and most of all, I have balls and that is what it takes sometimes is balls. Nobody would ever succeed in life playing it safe.
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And only burned 13 gallons in those 2 hours.....
SteveCostello
My member is well-known.
Totally hear you on all accounts. We have money saved up for my PPL and IFR. I'll put block time on the SWA card simply because we get points off of it (we haven't paid for a flight on SWA for about three years, because we put EVERYTHING except the mortgage on it, and pay it off clean at the end of each month), but it's basically cash. I'll keep on doing that as much as possible until I can start getting paid to fly on someone else's dime. I'll keep doing the web development gig until (and probably a bit past ) that point, and will use it as my fallback should things go tango uniform. Heck... it already HAS been my fallback from financially dropping out of ERAU 15 years ago.
69_Bug_Dude
The Undertaker
I would never put my family in financial jeopardy and I don't believe that I ever said a word about borrowing money for this. Thankfully my antique clock addiction/collection will fund my venture which is a win/win situation because my wife has much more room in the house for her stuff. However no I'm not an oil tycoon, trust fund baby, millionaire or anything like that. The whole pilot shortage isn't my reasoning, I don't buy that line of crap.
I have read the fine print understand it fully. That is why in my first post about ATP, I stated that "if all goes well". I know that there is a real possibility of not instructing with them, lack of students, not getting my CFI etc. It all boils down to taking one step at a time and crossing that bridge when I get there and roll with it. Just understand I am not banking on anything at this point.
A300, you have made some very valid points and I appreciate your response and concern. As far as the what if's and many pitfalls go, that is true in any business. My funeral director/embalmer license took a fair amount of commitment, time & $$ to attain as well. The year of internship at minimum wage wasn't a ton of fun, but it's what I had to do. The nice thing is, I am licensed and will hold it until I die and therefore have a fairly solid backup plan. While the funeral profession isn't the "professional career" as it once was, it's not all bad. Some days suck and some don't. Economy plays a huge role in this business as well, and more family owned firms are being bought out by corporations now than nearly ever. The pitfalls, while different than the airlines, can end my career in an instant or quite possibly my life. Formaldehyde is not joke and neither are all of the wonderful microbiological elements that thanks to HIPAA we usually know nothing about. Now while we practice universal precautions, that doesn't mean that accidents such as a needle stick or scalpel cut won't happen, that's why they are called accidents. And stress, oh boy I could go on and on about stress. I agree wholeheartedly on your comment regarding common courtesy...add death to the mix and it gets very interesting at times.
If things don't work out, yet I attain my Private, Commercial and Instrument Ratings, etc. I have lost nothing but 5 months of time and some money that I have set aside for just this. And yes, I do know that I could save a little bit of money and go through a local FBO and take years to do it. I know that it is fast paced at ATP and that you are getting a lot of information in a short period of time, but I learn quite well that way.
I am not a "What if" person, if life were meant to be lived based on the negative side of "What if", most of the advances our daily life since cavemen would have been just that...a "What if". I am much more of a positive "What if" and "oh well" type of person. I am choosing to go after something that I have thought out in its entirety, weighed the possibilities, taken experienced pilot advice into consideration, etc. This isn't some on a whim type thing where I woke up one day and said I want to be a pilot.
This whole thread has brought out some great conversation and thoughts and I appreciate the opportunity for discussion. And yes I am looking forward to the challenging road ahead, no matter how it unfolds. I also am looking forward becoming a full-fledged member to the career changers club!
ComplexHiAv8r
Well-Known Member
desertdog71 said:
You are only 42? Thought you were closer to my age.
ComplexHiAv8r
Well-Known Member
desertdog71 said:
Fly what you can, pen what you need.
Oh wait....
GypsyPilot
Mohawk Town
That's true Mike, and like I said it works for some people. But when I see people in their mid-20s with over $100,000 in debt from flight training and some generic degree, that's just going to be a tough battle regardless.
I've been in the debt trap before, and I felt like a slave to it. I worked my ass off and sacrificed a lot to get out of debt, and it was WELL worth it. It was also a great lesson to learn at a young age. Now I understand how dangerous debt is, and am happy to live well within my means while still having fun and buying nice things every once in awhile (but I always pay cash!).
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
I think you'll find that for a lot of us who are doing OK financially, money isn't about stuff - it's about security.
desertdog71
Girthy Member
OK funny guy. So explain your hold up again?
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JustinS
Well-Known Member
TONS of great advice flowing through this thread! I joined JC a little over a year ago. I've learned a lot, and I'm still learning! I can speak with SOME experience. I'm 22 now and a CFI. I have manageable debt that will be paid off by the time I'm 30 years old (at the latest). I must admit, a lot of my low debt had to do with the blessing of scholarships, grants, my own personal money working a bunch of different jobs, and family helped where they could. My debt is comprised of strictly federal school loans so the interest rate is reasonable, and the interest accrued is minimal.
If you have it all funded up front, and you don't have anything to lose except a bruised ego and a lighter pocket book, go for it! Like one person said in here. It's better to have tried what you wanted to do in life than look back at an old age and regret never doing what you wanted to do with your life.
As far as family, the most difficult thing won't be your training now or your flight instructing job. It will be when you're contending for a part 91, 121, or 135 gig that might have you move across the country or put you at a less than desirable base forcing you to commute. I'm getting married in October, and that is something my fiancee understands. Right now my career dictates where we live. Right now it's easy because I'm flight instructing, and you can find those jobs just about anywhere. I've warned her when I find a new job as a commercial pilot, we will be moving.
I must also agree with A300Capt , there is a lot of luck and timing that go into this "game" of life as a pilot. I've already had a fair share of my friends experience both better and worse luck than I've had right now. Despite the difficult times and the easy times, Don't let it phase you and keep your hard honest work at the forefront of who you are.
One last piece of advice. NETWORK NETWORK NETWORK NETWORK! JetCareers is a great start, but there are more people out there than just JetCareers. Meet as many people as you can and build connections. Through my networking, and the networking of my friends with me I have helped a few of my friends find good jobs. That's one other thing I've learned pay it forward all you can.
Sorry lots of jumbled ideas there, but that was on my mind. Best of luck to you man. I think you fit in great around here already.
If you have it all funded up front, and you don't have anything to lose except a bruised ego and a lighter pocket book, go for it! Like one person said in here. It's better to have tried what you wanted to do in life than look back at an old age and regret never doing what you wanted to do with your life.
As far as family, the most difficult thing won't be your training now or your flight instructing job. It will be when you're contending for a part 91, 121, or 135 gig that might have you move across the country or put you at a less than desirable base forcing you to commute. I'm getting married in October, and that is something my fiancee understands. Right now my career dictates where we live. Right now it's easy because I'm flight instructing, and you can find those jobs just about anywhere. I've warned her when I find a new job as a commercial pilot, we will be moving.
I must also agree with A300Capt , there is a lot of luck and timing that go into this "game" of life as a pilot. I've already had a fair share of my friends experience both better and worse luck than I've had right now. Despite the difficult times and the easy times, Don't let it phase you and keep your hard honest work at the forefront of who you are.
One last piece of advice. NETWORK NETWORK NETWORK NETWORK! JetCareers is a great start, but there are more people out there than just JetCareers. Meet as many people as you can and build connections. Through my networking, and the networking of my friends with me I have helped a few of my friends find good jobs. That's one other thing I've learned pay it forward all you can.
Sorry lots of jumbled ideas there, but that was on my mind. Best of luck to you man. I think you fit in great around here already.