Landing Incident @ SFO

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Seggy said:
Oh boy. nc1982, you seeing this?
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Korean Air come a long way? From talking with my buddies on the inside, I can assure you its not better at Korean. Sure it got better when they were threatened and they brought in a VP from Delta. But he's long gone. I turned down 2 interviews with Korean cause I couldn't get time off, and the fact I'm a fat ass and they require a certain BMI. Thought about applying again but every time I hear the stories from my buddy, I get pushed away.
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So colloquial "my buddy..." stories are proof about Korean Air and Asiana competencies this year in 2013? Sorry you'll have to do better. Not sure I'm buying any of it from a guy who self-admittedly can't get hired at Korean or Asiana, it adds bias to the situation.
 
ClarkGriswold said:
Which is BS, I personally demonstrated them to all my students so they knew what to expect. If, god forbid, it ever happened to them I didn't want them bringing a knife to a gun fight. End thread drift.
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I went out and did an aerobatic/EMT course, not because I needed it for the CFI, but because (1) it makes you a superior airman and (2) it's a whole lot of fun, too.
 
I'll say it again... someone whom I know flies a 77F has repeated time and again since the accident, that he wouldn't be surprised in the least if the pilot thought that the A/T were engaged, as just resting the hand on the throttles is enough weight to kick them off.

The 747 apparently, does not suffer from the same issue with the clutch in the auto-throttle, so if the "new to the 777" pilot had his hand resting on the A/T, he may have thought the airplane was handling his speed, combine that with potentially poor CRM, and by the time anyone realizes anything, too late.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
I went out and did an aerobatic/EMT course, not because I needed it for the CFI, but because (1) it makes you a superior airman and (2) it's a whole lot of fun, too.
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I've done probably 30-40 actual spins, which for some pilots is not even worth mentioning, but the majority of "new" commercial pilots in the USA, it's 30-40 more then they've done.

If anything it makes you respect letting the airplane get too slow, a lot more than just stall training.
 
Are there any good articles addressing the effect of ab initio training on CRM? It seems that the wider gap between skill and experience between captain and FO would have an impact, but I haven't heard too many negative stories about European carriers. Does ab initio training work better in the West?
 
canadian_atc said:
I've done probably 30-40 actual spins, which for some pilots is not even worth mentioning, but the majority of "new" commercial pilots in the USA, it's 30-40 more then they've done.

If anything it makes you respect letting the airplane get too slow, a lot more than just stall training.
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True story, I "slow flew" the 172S at about 60 knots on my private checkride, by direction of the examiner. 60 knots isn't even slow enough to trigger the horn on some of them. Stall is way down at "I forget but not many" knots.

Slow speed maneuvering indeed.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Actually, if it was an Airbus, it would have likely alpha floored and done TOGA automatically sooner than in this Boeing.
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Or the tail would have come off in flight because the pilots tried to "fly" the thing.

Or, Airbus pilots would simply stall the airplane into the ocean because "The computer is supposed to save me, just pull up!"

No thanks, I'll take my chances on an airplane that lets the pilot fly it, I'd rather let the pilot make the call in an emergency rather than some computer logic designed by an engineer that's never set foot in a cockpit
 
Boris Badenov said:
We "need to try". Try what? Like what program do you propose that will be more effective at making sure pilots stop somehow forgetting that when you go too slowly, plane no worky? Maybe we should focus on not hiring fools. And while yes, many careless mistakes have been made and will be made by me in the future, no, it "can't happen to me". I will never crash an airplane because woopsie I forgot the power! If I do, you can totally repost this and make me look bad.
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Exactly right. People have some objection to the word 'Negligence'. A careless mistake is negligence. It's practically the definition of negligence. I've made careless mistakes. I was negligent. I fixed my mistakes with the correct actions, and no one has been endangered. The day I put someone in danger through a careless mistake, don't defend me. Learn form it, but don't defend me.
 
Seggy said:
My point is that for some reason airplanes are crashing because we are having trouble controlling our speeds.



But we need to try.



No offense to you or your friend, but when people say broad statements like that, well, if you can't think it can happen to you, it can.
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Eh, I am not some badass pilot or anything but getting way too slow at 100 feet is not a "it can happen to you" situation. Its a "I am a dumbass not paying attention to what the F I am doing" situation. Airspeed management is a fundamental that is taught from day 1 PPL training.
 
CC has been vying mightily for most-laughed-at clown-troll on the internet for years. I wouldn't let it bother you, and I certainly wouldn't take the smelly, week-old bait.
 
SeanD said:
Anyone know what time the NTSB news conference happens today?
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NTSB to Hold Third Media Briefing on Asiana Airlines Flight 214 crash in San Francisco


July 9, 2013
San Francisco –The National Transportation Safety Board will hold its third media briefing today on the investigation into the crash of Asiana Airlines Flight 214, in San Francisco, that occurred on May 6, 2013.

Event: Press Briefing

Date/Time: Tuesday, July 9, 2013 at 2:00 p.m. (PDT)

Location: Holiday Inn
(Peninsula room)
275 South Airport Blvd
South San Francisco, CA 94080


Participants: Chairman Deborah Hersman


On Scene Media Contact: Keith Holloway (202) 557-1350
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nc1982 said:
See Seggy. One reason I get pushed away from this website more and more. I have too much respect for Derg and his website to respond how I would like to to this clown.
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I'm sorry, did you have *facts* to support your purported claims that Korean pilots were unsafe and/or suffering from CRM issues that were prodominant in the 80s in 90s?
 
Boris Badenov said:
We "need to try". Try what? Like what program do you propose that will be more effective at making sure pilots stop somehow forgetting that when you go too slowly, plane no worky? Maybe we should focus on not hiring fools. And while yes, many careless mistakes have been made and will be made by me in the future, no, it "can't happen to me". I will never crash an airplane because woopsie I forgot the power! If I do, you can totally repost this and make me look bad.
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Once again....seriously?
 
If a culture issue, how are they passing training here is the states? I know all training isn't done but what is the pass rate here?
 
canadian_atc said:
Or the tail would have come off in flight because the pilots tried to "fly" the thing.

Or, Airbus pilots would simply stall the airplane into the ocean because "The computer is supposed to save me, just pull up!"

No thanks, I'll take my chances on an airplane that lets the pilot fly it, I'd rather let the pilot make the call in an emergency rather than some computer logic designed by an engineer that's never set foot in a cockpit
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Wait, what? The Airbus does let the pilot fly it. It adds a layer of protection which IMO is a good thing when others might have missed something crucial. AF 447 was a crew caught up in a bad situation, without fully realizing what had happened and what law they had degraded to.
 
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