Thinking about making a complete 180 and pursuing my original dream.

I_Money said:
Doctor's aren't as wealthy as many people believe.
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This is true. I am currently training two medical doctors. They are pretty much average-upper middle class. They own and fly Cherokees. The doctor who does my FAA medical exams owns a J3. However, they still own and fly their own airplanes, while many others dont.

Most people come out of med school with massive debt and a lot of ongoing expenses (malpractice insurance can run $10,000-$50,000 annually). While you hear of some people go out and make $300-500k in a specialty like Radiology or specialized surgery, that is not what happens to most people who go into medicine.

A whole lot more busted their butt for years to get through med school, internships, and residencies... and they are now out stitching up kids cuts and looking at grandma's festering rashes, earning $100-200k as a GP and with $150K+ in debt. I'm not saying they dont still make a very good living and have a lot of great opportunities. But it's not quite the rockstar life some people think it is.

However, living within their means still gives them more cash left over to do fun things with, like buy and fly airplanes... even if they aren't flying their own L-39, brand new Cirrus, or immaculate Beaver.
 
rframe said:
However, living within their means still gives them more cash left over to do fun things with, like buy and fly airplanes... even if they aren't flying their own L-39, brand new Cirrus, or immaculate Beaver.
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I know a doc that has an L-39 as well...
 
All I can tell you is what I know from my perspective:

Do what you love or you won't ever be truly happy. But be cautioned, the grass isn't always greener on the other side. This profession has a lot of peculiar pitfalls and it seems to take a lot of luck and excellent networking skills to get to a comfortable place. And you can still lose it all in the blink of an eye if you lose your medical or any other myriad of things can happen that have nothing to do with your skill as a pilot or your health.

Keep pursuing the medical thing and finish your private rating in the meantime. Then if you are really enjoying it, pursue your instrument rating and go from there. Don't go into massive amounts of debt to be a pilot. It just isn't worth it. And ditto what someone else said about this being a job. We all started here because of our love for flying... But when you do it day in and day out it loses a little bit of that magic it once held. I always will love what I do... But make no mistake, this is not something to jump into lightly.
 
rframe said:
This is true. I am currently training two medical doctors. They are pretty much average-upper middle class. They own and fly Cherokees. The doctor who does my FAA medical exams owns a J3. However, they still own and fly their own airplanes, while many others dont.

Most people come out of med school with massive debt and a lot of ongoing expenses (malpractice insurance can run $10,000-$50,000 annually). While you hear of some people go out and make $300-500k in a specialty like Radiology or specialized surgery, that is not what happens to most people who go into medicine.

A whole lot more busted their butt for years to get through med school, internships, and residencies... and they are now out stitching up kids cuts and looking at grandma's festering rashes, earning $100-200k as a GP and with $150K+ in debt. I'm not saying they dont still make a very good living and have a lot of great opportunities. But it's not quite the rockstar life some people think it is.

However, living within their means still gives them more cash left over to do fun things with, like buy and fly airplanes... even if they aren't flying their own L-39, brand new Cirrus, or immaculate Beaver.
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I would add that I have at least one doctor friend who, between her undergrad (a well-regarded institution in Palo Alto) and med school, will have around $700K (!) in loan debt by the time she's finished learning.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
I would add that I have at least one doctor friend who, between her undergrad (a well-regarded institution in Palo Alto) and med school, will have around $700K (!) in loan debt by the time she's finished learning.
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I have heard of student debt in the range of 350k but never 700k....unfathomable..
 
I have a lot of experience in both Medicine and Aviation, being a pilot and married to a M.D.

I can say unequivocally that whatever you decide, if you enter either of these professions to get rich, you will be horribly disappointed and bitter. In both professions you will find that the reality of the job is nothing at all like the Hollywood myths that have skewed public's perception.

The pilot's here can explain how much this job sucks at times. Leaving your son crying in the arms of his babysitter so you can fly to Midland Texas for 2 weeks isn't what I dreamed of when I wanted to become a pilot.

The doctor side of the house isn't much better. Most of my wife's day involves taking care of the dregs of humanity, drug seekers, homeless, criminals, welfare patients, and child abuse.

Only pusrue either of these careers if you absolutely can't imagine doing anything else.
 
USMCmech said:
I have a lot of experience in both Medicine and Aviation, being a pilot and married to a M.D.

I can say unequivocally that whatever you decide, if you enter either of these professions to get rich, you will be horribly disappointed and bitter. In both professions you will find that the reality of the job is nothing at all like the Hollywood myths that have skewed public's perception.

The pilot's here can explain how much this job sucks at times. Leaving your son crying in the arms of his babysitter so you can fly to Midland Texas for 2 weeks isn't what I dreamed of when I wanted to become a pilot.

The doctor side of the house isn't much better. Most of my wife's day involves taking care of the dregs of humanity, drug seekers, homeless, criminals, welfare patients, and child abuse.

Only pusrue either of these careers if you absolutely can't imagine doing anything else.
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Well said. Agree 100% with this post ^^^^^
 
drunkenbeagle said:
The only two folks I know that fly their own jets are physicians. Some doctors, like pilots, can make terrible financial decisions. But certainly not all of them. Trying to run your own general practice, or be an AME? Well, you aren't going to get rich doing that.

I know someone that has a P-51. Care to guess what they do for a living?
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Of course there are examples of doctors that are millionaires; that's not the point. The point is that they are by far in the minority. If you are making career plans, you should be familiar with what's average and not be focused on outliers.

Also, don't conclude that a doctor who can't afford a jet made terrible financial decisions. Rather, the doctor who can afford his/her own jet is very business savvy and clearly made very good financial decisions.

A pilot who naturally has contact with lots of owner/operators is going to meet a non-representative sample of the physician community. In medicine we call this selection bias.
 
WhatRJ said:
I have heard of student debt in the range of 350k but never 700k....unfathomable..
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Yup. To be fair that figure includes repayment (interest) costs.

Pretty staggering what the banks will do when they have a Federal guarantee.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
The only two folks I know that fly their own jets are physicians. Some doctors, like pilots, can make terrible financial decisions. But certainly not all of them. Trying to run your own general practice, or be an AME? Well, you aren't going to get rich doing that.

I know someone that has a P-51. Care to guess what they do for a living?
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And some docs don't become docs to make money, they do it because they love medicine. My wife and I make choices for QOL, not money. She could've been a dermatologist making the big $$. Instead, she's a family doc teaching new doctors at a residency program. It isn't a "terrible financial decision." It's a holistic approach where she balances her/our quality of life vs money.

I think a lot of us chase the $$, and forget that there's way more to life than the almighty $.

To the original poster, ask yourself why you got into medicine to begin with. Why don't you want to be in medicine anymore? Don't leave a career that you do enjoy for one that you "might" enjoy. Professional aviation is likely NOT what you think it is.

I love my job. A lot. I wouldn't do anything else. If you don't love it that much, you'll be miserable. The love of the job balances out the sacrifices that we've all made (and continue to make) to be here. That's my .02 at least.
 
flyinguitar said:
Of course there are examples of doctors that are millionaires; that's not the point. The point is that they are by far in the minority. If you are making career plans, you should be familiar with what's average and not be focused on outliers.

Also, don't conclude that a doctor who can't afford a jet made terrible financial decisions. Rather, the doctor who can afford his/her own jet is very business savvy and clearly made very good financial decisions.

A pilot who naturally has contact with lots of owner/operators is going to meet a non-representative sample of the physician community. In medicine we call this selection bias.
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Here are the mean (average) numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, probably the most objective numbers out there. If making lots of money is your goal, well, smart people tend to make a lot on Wall Street, but most that I knew there hated their lives. It is certainly easier to become a pilot than to become a doctor. If I could do it in my spare time, it can't be all that hard. Either way, both careers are still much better than the average US wage.

Anesthesiology $407,292
General surgery 343,958
Obstetrics/gynecology 281,190
Internal medicine 205,379
Psychiatry 200,694
Pediatrics/adolecent medicine 192,148
Family practice (without obstetrics) 189,402
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Airline Pilots, Copilots, and Flight Engineers $103,210
Airline and Commercial Pilots $92,060
Commercial Pilots $67,500
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Total, All Occupations $33,840
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flyinguitar said:
Also, don't conclude that a doctor who can't afford a jet made terrible financial decisions. Rather, the doctor who can afford his/her own jet is very business savvy and clearly made very good financial decisions.
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Or, the alternative: A doctor who owns a jet may have made many terrible financial decisions that have not caught up with him yet.

I know MANY docs who are living well beyond their means, and are facing financial ruin. Many try to live up the stereotypical doctor lifestyle and wind up broke. My wife's aunt is a M.D. who has gone bankrupt twice and lives in her son's basement.

We bought a house well below what we could afford, still haven't bought a new car, are maxing out retirement, and are almost done paying off our student loans. Will I be able to own my own plane someday, sure but it won't be a jet. More likely it will be a RV-7 or some other small airplane that I can fly when I want. BTW, you can pick up a Pitts for less than a Corvette ;)
 
drunkenbeagle said:
Here are the mean (average) numbers from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, probably the most objective numbers out there. If making lots of money is your goal, well, smart people tend to make a lot on Wall Street, but most that I knew there hated their lives. It is certainly easier to become a pilot than to become a doctor. If I could do it in my spare time, it can't be all that hard. Either way, both careers are still much better than the average US wage.
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It isn't that hard to become a doctor. It's hard to become a highly paid (high end) doctor. You can go to med school in the Caribbean, and do a family medicine residency here in the states. You get out, and make around $150,000 at a hospital associated practice. In some locales more. Once established, you could earn in the mid $200,000 range.

Disclaimer- going to a low-end med school is risky! You may not get into a residency.

It will take you 7 years, minimally (start to residency graduation), assuming you have the med school pre-reqs done, and you can start in a timely manner.

The aviation career is arguably quicker, especially if the industry getting into a hiring cycle. But it's not an easy road either. At a major, you can earn more than a family doctor, but it takes some time to get there!
 
PhilosopherPilot said:
It isn't that hard to become a doctor. It's hard to become a highly paid (high end) doctor. You can go to med school in the Caribbean, and do a family medicine residency here in the states. You get out, and make around $150,000 at a hospital associated practice. In some locales more. Once established, you could earn in the mid $200,000 range.

Disclaimer- going to a low-end med school is risky! You may not get into a residency.
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You have no idea how long it took for me to find a Dentist that did not go to a Caribbean dental school, and was accepting patients here.
 
Follow your dreams and don't let people on the internet sway your opinion with horror stories.

The reality is that this job is one of the easiest I've ever had. Show up. Fly for a few days. Go home. My boss (the CP) almost had no clue who I was until I flew with him for the first time last week (I've been here a year and a half).

I really enjoy my job. I have 15-16 days off every month (what doctor gets that?). I don't take work home with me. I couldn't imagine doing anything else.
 
Get your MD and go fly yourself around in the bush in a 206 doing medical relief work... win win. Well as long as you dont want money, but that's way over-rated anyway.
 
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