Career Changing... Away from the airlines...

yourcfi said:
There should only be one question that you should be in your equation: Passion!
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Sorry, but the passion fades. At least for most of us. I wanted to be a pilot since I was 4 years old. I was absolutely obsessed with aviation. Passion would be an understatement. But after 12 years of it, the passion is gone, and all I see ahead of me is years upon years of commuting, a 20-year upgrade, and not getting a decent vacation award for 15 years.

The passion dies. What really matters is quality of life. If your idea of quality of life is spending the night in a new city every night, four nights a week, then maybe the airline quality of life is for you. But if your idea of quality of life is being at home, spending time with family and friends, being able to make it to important family events, etc., then this business is a killer. Decide accordingly, and don't let passion lead you astray.
 
Entry level 121 airline jobs have you staying in a hotel 17-18 nights/month, usually over the weekend and by "murphy's law" on days and nights when you wish you were at home...

Currently I'm a FO at a large regional almost 1 year seniority at a relatively junior base. We've had A LOT movement here and I still only get about two Fridays, one Saturday, and the occasional Sunday off per month. Rarely all on the same weekend.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Sorry, but the passion fades. At least for most of us. I wanted to be a pilot since I was 4 years old. I was absolutely obsessed with aviation. Passion would be an understatement. But after 12 years of it, the passion is gone, and all I see ahead of me is years upon years of commuting, a 20-year upgrade, and not getting a decent vacation award for 15 years.

The passion dies. What really matters is quality of life. If your idea of quality of life is spending the night in a new city every night, four nights a week, then maybe the airline quality of life is for you. But if your idea of quality of life is being at home, spending time with family and friends, being able to make it to important family events, etc., then this business is a killer. Decide accordingly, and don't let passion lead you astray.
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Just a thought... and this is not bashing you, but do you think if you hadn't taken a fast track you'd be happier? Forgot to stop and smell the roses type of thing? I got my ppl in 2005, so I haven't been at this as long, but at the moment I'm pretty happy where I am. 14 days off a month in a small turbo prop with regional captain wages. I imagine within the year I'll also be home every single night even if working.
I don't and haven't built flight time near as fast as I think airline pilots do though.
I've also been able to fly quite a few different airplanes professionally, and while there are some airports that are visited a lot, I still go to new ones all the time. New airplanes and new airports keeps things interesting, to me.
 
z987k said:
Just a thought... and this is not bashing you, but do you think if you hadn't taken a fast track you'd be happier?
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Fast track? I spent almost 7 years at the regionals. Believe me, I had plenty of time to "smell the roses," and the bouquet wasn't all it's cracked up to be.

Just spend some time riding up front on mainline airplanes and ask the crews if they still feel any "passion" flying. Yes, you'll find some that do. I have friends that are very much still passionate about aviation. But I would say that at least 2/3 of the guys I fly with and talk to on jumpseats view this as just a job and not a passion.
 
He means not paying to fly for Gulfstream (fast track). Also, a true love for aviation is necessary, not just wanting to be an airline pilot. I still love a local flight in the Cherokee more than airline flying. That helps keep the passion thing going.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Sorry, but the passion fades. At least for most of us. I wanted to be a pilot since I was 4 years old. I was absolutely obsessed with aviation. Passion would be an understatement. But after 12 years of it, the passion is gone, and all I see ahead of me is years upon years of commuting, a 20-year upgrade, and not getting a decent vacation award for 15 years.

The passion dies. What really matters is quality of life. If your idea of quality of life is spending the night in a new city every night, four nights a week, then maybe the airline quality of life is for you. But if your idea of quality of life is being at home, spending time with family and friends, being able to make it to important family events, etc., then this business is a killer. Decide accordingly, and don't let passion lead you astray.
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>>>>

While I sit down after putting my 2 year old to bed and read your comment, I think you definitely made the point! In fact, I would not get a job (may be 135 instead) or wait for a corporate gig (due to my networking in corp america for 15+ years) where life might be better. It may not work and I might just try to build a student following. Even then, I would research and ensure that my family life will not be impacted. Regional would not be my way to go for sure! I had a nice end to a weekday working from home, going out for a run with my little one, taking my family out for a meal, and then home to put my little one to bed - I could not agree more with you about what you said. In fact, now that I am looking at that statement, it is not true in its entirety. Sure a person, who has time on their side (young) and will take this as putting their due to eventually get seniority with a stable company will do it anyways. And thats what is more important.

That being said, I have seen people quit their jobs (I can only speak from IT side), stress out, burn out, loose cool, and even admitted for stress related syndroms etc. over the last 15 years. That has happened way more often than some would like to think! I still think that a job, that you are not good at or not mean to be in or just otherwise plain you do not have the passion to carry out for 30+ years, will burn you out and eat you up - irrespective of sitting down at the table for dinner with your family every night! One may be better off living out of a suit-case instead.

I do respect what you said and do believe you are right. Missing out loved one's birthdays or other important events does not trump passion. So, let me correct my own statement about passion by saying that one needs to determine which path makes them happy. And to the person with the original question - why not take a sabbatical or heck even turning in your two weeks of notice after getting a certification in whatever you are thinking about trying in IT. Jobs are plenty and worse case scenario will still get you a job. You can experience first hand and then decide for yourself.

Regards :)
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Just spend some time riding up front on mainline airplanes and ask the crews if they still feel any "passion" flying. Yes, you'll find some that do. I have friends that are very much still passionate about aviation. But I would say that at least 2/3 of the guys I fly with and talk to on jumpseats view this as just a job and not a passion.
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Like anything else, if you do it enough it may lose some of its excitement . If you're getting paid at the same time it could eventually be labeled "just a job." I wonder of those 2/3 how many would rather be doing anything else for a living, or wish they had, and of those how many would really think the grass is greener once they got there?
 
DE727UPS said:
He means not paying to fly for Gulfstream (fast track). Also, a true love for aviation is necessary, not just wanting to be an airline pilot. I still love a local flight in the Cherokee more than airline flying. That helps keep the passion thing going.
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I recently got into flying gliders on days off. That definitely keeps the passion!
 
cmhumphr said:
I recently got into flying gliders on days off. That definitely keeps the passion!
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I honestly prefer flying a glider to anything else I have flown in my life. I would be perfectly happy if I never flew anything else again.

A wise man once told me - the secret to life is low overhead. If you don't have a ton a debt/expensive house/lifestyle that costs close to what you make, life is a lot easier. You don't have to worry about working a job you don't like to pay the bills - you can quit and do something else. Or quit and do nothing.

If flying is all you care about, well, you are probably going to be disappointed someday.
 
drunkenbeagle said:
I honestly prefer flying a glider to anything else I have flown in my life. I would be perfectly happy if I never flew anything else again.

A wise man once told me - the secret to life is low overhead. If you don't have a ton a debt/expensive house/lifestyle that costs close to what you make, life is a lot easier. You don't have to worry about working a job you don't like to pay the bills - you can quit and do something else. Or quit and do nothing.

If flying is all you care about, well, you are probably going to be disappointed someday.
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I am with you here. I love flying gliders and I love to do competitions as well. Heck I even look forward to flying the Pawnee some days
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Sorry, but the passion fades. At least for most of us. I wanted to be a pilot since I was 4 years old. I was absolutely obsessed with aviation. Passion would be an understatement. But after 12 years of it, the passion is gone, and all I see ahead of me is years upon years of commuting, a 20-year upgrade, and not getting a decent vacation award for 15 years.

The passion dies. What really matters is quality of life. If your idea of quality of life is spending the night in a new city every night, four nights a week, then maybe the airline quality of life is for you. But if your idea of quality of life is being at home, spending time with family and friends, being able to make it to important family events, etc., then this business is a killer. Decide accordingly, and don't let passion lead you astray.
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I hear ya. I would love to take up aerobatics on the side, but as far as flying for a living? Fun at times, but after having a job where I could go weeks (or currently, months) without touching an airplane, I realized that I simply didn't care. Once I was free to pursue other interests on the side, and build better personal relationships, the more I saw my job as a way to enrichen my personal life, rather than a way to "chase the dream." It's now my goal to retire with less than 10,000TT. :D
 
Eric Bohn said:
Like anything else, if you do it enough it may lose some of its excitement . If you're getting paid at the same time it could eventually be labeled "just a job." I wonder of those 2/3 how many would rather be doing anything else for a living, or wish they had, and of those how many would really think the grass is greener once they got there?
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I left my regional of 6 years for a non aviation job, at a company I had previously worked for during college, that looked like a dream job on paper. My reason for leaving was a displacement, a sizable paycut, and a possible furlough within a years time. 100k+ pay with large increases based upon performance, full benefits, and great job/industry stability. Since I had worked there before I thought I had a pretty good idea of what I was getting myself into. I've been here 2 months and am interviewing with any company that will take a look at me. Although the money is nice I am currently working 7 days a week and sometimes 12+ hours a day. This tidbit was not part of the discussion when I was hired although it would have been nice to know. Also the company I once knew has changed significantly... I walked into a terrible mess of family politics, disorganization, failure to communicate, and unrealistic expectations both for myself and the employees that I manage. My dept is understaffed, short of resources to effectively complete assigned tasks, and although I have guys willingly working 70 hour weeks the stack of work orders never grows smaller. All of the possible solutions I have presented to solve efficiency issues have been dismissed because my superiors don't seem to see value in spending time or money to increase production dramatically or want to outperform their sibling to look better at morning production meetings (read if not applying a solution would hurt a siblings production line and ultimately the company's production they see that as being ok.)
So is the grass greener on the other side? Maybe for some but I value my time off with my SO and would rather make less in the long run to maintain my sanity. I like "stackin' cheddar" but if I don't have a life outside of eating, sleeping, showering, and working what is the point? I know I've learned a valuable lesson about myself and perhaps it was the wakeup call/reality check that I needed to readjust both my frame of mind and my attitude towards all of the phony baloney one has to endure as a regional airline pilot.
In retrospect the aggravating interactions I had with dispatch, scheduling, and MX were a walk in the park compared to my current surroundings. Perspective is everything I suppose.
 
I too recently left my 121 carrier. I just couldn't take it anymore. Bankruptcy, base closure, new TA with rules being implemented without a working understanding were all factors. Couple the work related factors with commuting, having a 2 year old with another on the way, no time whatsoever for hobbies, terrible diet, terrible sleep schedule and always saying no to friends and activities that take me away from my family were what sent me "unpacking" (oh snap).

I can honestly say I have a passion for aviation and love to fly, but when I consider I spent 20ish days a month away from home only to spend 60-75 of those hours flying, I started to wonder what I was doing. My family would always make comments that I just wasn't the same person anymore. Stressed, unhappy, on edge. Not what I'm normally like. I would, much of the time, feel guilt for not spending more time with son and wife. It slowly wore on me day after day. The work was "easy" but the ime away from home was ridiculous. I now start my new job on Monday working as a communications specialist for an air ambulance company. I will be working a 2on 2off 3on 2 off 2 on 3 off schedule on a 2 week rotation. Every other week I only work Wednesday and Thursday. Good benefits, home every day, slight pay raise.

I am really excited for this opportunity. I am not naive enough to think I will want work here forever, but it will reduce my stress, give lots of time off and the ability to go back to school if I desire. I would really like to keep flying in some capacity, even if its just recreationally for now.

My lifelong goal was to fly for an airline, and I can rest easy knowing what it's like and that I more or less reached my goal. Never made it to a major, but I digress....... In the end I asked myself if I would regret not sticking with the airline gig my entire career and see some amazing things, or regret not seeing my family grow up and spent time with the people most important to me while having time to do the things I love. The decision at that point was simple. I am sad to be done flying for a living for now, but I am not sad to get rid of the headache and stress of commuting to work at a regional. Everybody is different and everybody has different priorities. Do whatever gives you time to enjoy life and loved ones.
 
BrewMaster , how long did you work for the airlines? Is there a particular airline lifestyle that would have worked for you? How was the lifestyle different than what you expected getting into it?
 
Eric Bohn said:
BrewMaster , how long did you work for the airlines? Is there a particular airline lifestyle that would have worked for you? How was the lifestyle different than what you expected getting into it?
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I did it for a year and a half. Pretty small amount of time, but to get burned out that quick is probably a sign that I wasn't going to make it. I love to fly, but there was too much negative tied in with the job. I miss my mapping gig with Stomp16 more than the airlines. Flying the CRJ700 was fun, especially heading out west, but that came to an end. I did other cool things like having 18 hrs in DC to tour the mall, etc. but those were far and few between.

I can tell you living in base is the only way to go. Commuting is hell.

I didn't expect the inability to make ANY plans. The schedule was too erratic and unpredictable to make any plans.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Fast track? I spent almost 7 years at the regionals. Believe me, I had plenty of time to "smell the roses," and the bouquet wasn't all it's cracked up to be.

Just spend some time riding up front on mainline airplanes and ask the crews if they still feel any "passion" flying. Yes, you'll find some that do. I have friends that are very much still passionate about aviation. But I would say that at least 2/3 of the guys I fly with and talk to on jumpseats view this as just a job and not a passion.
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Everything that leads up to the flight deck door being closed and brakes being released I could do without (I guess that's what I'm paid for) - but for now, I still very much enjoy flying. I hope it never fades.
 
BrewMaster said:
I did it for a year and a half. Pretty small amount of time, but to get burned out that quick is probably a sign that I wasn't going to make it. I love to fly, but there was too much negative tied in with the job. I miss my mapping gig with Stomp16 more than the airlines. Flying the CRJ700 was fun, especially heading out west, but that came to an end. I did other cool things like having 18 hrs in DC to tour the mall, etc. but those were far and few between.

I can tell you living in base is the only way to go. Commuting is hell.

I didn't expect the inability to make ANY plans. The schedule was too erratic and unpredictable to make any plans.
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Thanks.
 
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