Airbus is getting rather nasty

Cherokee_Cruiser said:
However, what I don't know is what happens in a Boeing if authrottles are off and you are handflying and then carelessly the speed bleeds and you go near stall speeds.
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On the FBW airplanes, below a certain speed, you can no longer trim nose up. To get it to stall, you must hold an increasing and unusual amount of back pressure.

Disclaimer- I don't fly a 777, that's just how I understand the system to work.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
seagull, my opinions on AB flight control philosophy are based upon the things told to me by guys who have flown both Airbus and Boeings. While it's true that some of them like the Airbus better, I've found that to be pretty rare. They usually praise the "comfort" factor, but dislike the control philosophy. YMMV.
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As someone who's flown both an Airbus and Boeing I'd say your last sentence describes me very well....doesn't mean I wouldn't bid to fly the bus again if it meant the combo of QOL and pay that I was looking for at the time. That being said some of the Airbus haters need do some more research. The Fisher Price jet isn't so bad ;)
 
It's a Boeing the same way my brothers friend who is black as JJ Walker is Jewish because last name is Meitzenheimer.

True story!
 
I am now seeing this thread and it took me quite a while to get through the 8 pages of comments.

  1. Airbus is posting these ads in response to Boeings ad assertions on the 737Max's advantages over the 320NEO using actual numbers. Airbus confronted Boeing and asked them to stop when there was no proof, and Boeing scoffed at them. Hence, these ads are surfacing. Basically, it's a cat fight.
  2. I don't think the A vs B war will ever end unless the two companies merge. Then again, there might still be bickering ala LCC E vs W. ;)
  3. I COMPLETELY agree with everyone who cringes when they hear Boeing's name attached to Douglas or McDonnell Douglas products! I'm still of the "immature" mindset that Boeing couldn't wait to discontinue the Mad Dog. After all, why sell two types for the same market segment?
  4. Since folk want to post nostalgic pics of great aircraft, I'll post mine:
0236051.jpg

***I would sure love to see Lockheed come back into the commercial aviation market.***
 
seagull said:
As distasteful as the advert may be, the above statement is utter nonesense and belies a lack of knowledge of what is happening in current design.
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Last I checked the well known design philosophy for Boeing was simplify then automate. Airbus is complex design and automation to make it "simple" to fly.

Airbus isn't necessarily unsafe, but as a pilot I find these things annoying for abnormal operations.

It could be my freight experience as well as I have grown very distrustful of automation.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
...unless the AOA inputs to the FAC are wrong, you know...like what happened to ExcelAire. Then you can pull, pull, pull straight into the ground.


From a human interface point of view, it's that other 1e-12% that is really worrying, because suddenly "max alpha" inputs won't give you max alpha inputs anymore. Ahem.


Sent from Seat 3D
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What ExcelAire? Wasn't that the Brazil midair with the GOL? An Embraer Legacy jet.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
seagull, my opinions on AB flight control philosophy are based upon the things told to me by guys who have flown both Airbus and Boeings. While it's true that some of them like the Airbus better, I've found that to be pretty rare. They usually praise the "comfort" factor, but dislike the control philosophy. YMMV.
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Again, how? What specifically?
 
To my unskilled observation,

Yes, the basic 737 configuration is based on a 40 year old design, but so is my pickup. You know why a 2012 model has the same basic dimensions as one built in 1968? Because that is the most effective configuration for a worker to haul people and machinery around town.

Airbus or Boeing haters, you are all still arguing about who has the best aluminum and composite tube being pushed around by two turbofans under the wings.

My Grandpa worked for Boeing for 40 years, so I'm officially rooting for Boeing. But if I can get a job flying an Airbus that has better QOL and paycheck, I'll take it.
 
WestIndian425 said:
I
0236051.jpg


***I would sure love to see Lockheed come back into the commercial aviation market.***
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I watched this exact L-1011 get dismantled, parted out, and scrapped right here at MZJ a little over a year ago. Was the 2nd to last L-1011 here at the field. Last one existing here is the last one that flew for Delta, and is a parts bird for the Flying Hospital which is based at KTUS.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
And again, go back and read A Life Aloft's excellent post. He explained it beautifully.
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Also on the 777, when one control yoke is moved by a crew member, the other yoke moves as well. If the autopilot is flying the plane, both yokes will reflect the autopilot's control inputs. Even if the flight crew is busy with charts or messing with the radios, the movement of the yokes in front of them will provide a continuous visual indication of what the autopilot is doing. If the captain is flying manually and the first officer suddenly has to take over or become involved in the control of the airplane, he probably will already have a sense of what's going on control-wise from the movements the yoke has been making in front of him. It's an awareness thing, and can be a critical factor in an emergency situation.
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Meh, I don't look at the yoke to know what the airplane is doing. My info is on the PFD. If you're busy, you're busy. Yokes in front provide a continuous indication? Why not the PFD, which is where your attention should be from the get go.

Side sticks do not provide this level of crew awareness. The movement of one stick does not move the other one, hence the non-flying crew member will not be aware of the other person's, or the autopilot's, control inputs other than by instrument indications and by what the airplane is actually doing. Even if the side sticks did move together, their location puts them outside the "awareness bubble" of a non-flying crew member if he's involved with instruments or controls in the center of the panel or on the aisle stand.
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Yes, instrument flying and indications. For some pilots, that's a lost skill. I admit that the setup is different, but like anything, you get used to looking at the PFD and the EWD for all the information you need. Plus, with linked yokes, you have additional emergency memory items and proceduers for aileron jam or elevator jam. In the end, coming from a plane with dual-linked yokes as opposed to sidesticks, I didn't find it to be a big deal.

And, the Boeing philosophy extends to the throttles. When the engines on a Boeing plane are being controlled by the auto-throttle, the power levers on the aisle stand move to reflect the action of the auto-throttle. The auto-throttle on an Airbus does not move the power levers. They simply remain in the last place they were positioned before the auto-throttle took over. It's that awareness thing again. If the flight control computers determine a power application is needed during some phase of the flight, Boeing pilots will see their power levers move up the quadrant. The only indication Airbus pilots will have is the acceleration of the airplane, possibly the sound of the engines spooling up, and the readings of the engine instruments. In a high-stress, high distraction environment, on final in severe turbulence, for example,these are all things that could be overlooked for several critical moments. That's not to say it's impossible for Boeing pilots to overlook the action of an auto-throttle, but at least they've got some big levers moving under their noses to indicate what's going on.
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The Airbus does not have autothrottles., that's why the throttles don't move. It has autothrust. I don't need to see the power levers to know what the airplane is doing. That information is on column one of the PFD FMA and on the EWD page. And like any other airplane, you can turn the autothrust off and do it all manually.


IMO, all these listed above are not that big a deal. It takes a litle getting used to, like anything else. From having flown a yoke linked airplane and an Airbus, I prefer the Bus. From a pilot stanpoint, it flies nicely, and is very spacious. No central yoke column opens up the space for whatever you want on your sliding table.
 
Flying the Airbus is like having an ugly girlfriend, you defend her while she's around but once you move on and find a hot one, you admit what you always knew but wouldn't say out loud...she was heinous.
 
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