PPL student allowed to fly with "Friends" on Solo flights?!

C

Contrail the Kid

Well-Known Member
So a young kid I know who is working towards his private license asked me if I wanted to go fly with him while he flew his solo (his second or third one). He said that his instructor (an older guy) told him he could take a friend along if he wanted. I was very confused by the question and somewhat appalled.

I mean, from my perspective it's called a solo for a reason. I just can't imagine ever letting someone fly under my ticket with a passenger (pilot or not) during a solo. The kid's words were literally "my flight instructor said I could bring a friend if I wanted." On my first cross country solo I was busy filling out my nav log, and notifying traffic at each airport I flew over, doing my checklist items (approach, etc.), I literally wouldn't have had time to "entertain" another pilot. I think taking someone along on a solo would be a huge distraction. The airspace this student will be flying out of is HIGHLY congested with student traffic and is fairly busy to begin with.

Any thoughts? Maybe some people do that, I just have NEVER heard of it, and I wouldn't in my wildest dreams think of telling one of my students that was an option.
 
Re: PPL student allowed to fly with "Friends" on Solo flight

This could be a set up for a nice troll, however you put some decent time into writing it up.

Its not legal and the CFI could lose his ticket for encouraging it.
 
Re: PPL student allowed to fly with "Friends" on Solo flight

Interesting questions being asked from a "CFI, CFII, MEI" ...
 
Re: PPL student allowed to fly with "Friends" on Solo flight

I understand FAR 61.89, I'm just questioning the fact that he asked ME, a CFI. Maybe I should have made that clear. I mean maybe his instructor didn't actually say he could take a friend, and the kid is full of it. But, who's to say this kid doesn't go to another rated pilot to see if they want to go "fly"?
 
Re: PPL student allowed to fly with "Friends" on Solo flight

Contrail the Kid said:
I understand FAR 61.89, I'm just questioning the fact that he asked ME, a pilot. Maybe I should have made that clear.
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You know him. He must know you're a CFI. CFIs, to students, have all the answers. Why wouldn't he ask you something he wasn't sure about?
 
Re: PPL student allowed to fly with "Friends" on Solo flight

It "might" be that his instructor was trying to say something different and wasn't clear or didn't ensure that his student understood what was said. He may have said "and when you get your private pilot certificate you can take a friend along" and the student only heard half of what was said. People often only hear what they want to hear.

I believe the responsible thing to do is to go to the student's instructor and talk with him about what has happened and proceed based upon what that conversation reveals.

Incidentally, it's not a license and it's not a ticket, it's a certificate.
 
Re: PPL student allowed to fly with "Friends" on Solo flight

He wasn't asking me if it was allowed or not, he asked me if I wanted to go fly with him on his solo since his instructor said it was "ok". I told him as far as the solo was concerned it wasn't possible.
 
Re: PPL student allowed to fly with "Friends" on Solo flight

Guy said:
It "might" be that his instructor was trying to say something different and wasn't clear or didn't ensure that his student understood what was said. He may have said "and when you get your private pilot certificate you can take a friend along" and the student only heard half of what was said. People often only hear what they want to hear.

I believe the responsible thing to do is to go to the student's instructor and talk with him about what has happened and proceed based upon what that conversation reveals.

Incidentally, it's not a license and it's not a ticket, it's a certificate.
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Thanks Guy, that's basically what I was looking for; weather or not I should approach his instructor, or just let it be.
 
Re: PPL student allowed to fly with "Friends" on Solo flight

Contrail the Kid said:
I understand FAR 61.89, I'm just questioning the fact that he asked ME, a CFI. Maybe I should have made that clear. I mean maybe his instructor didn't actually say he could take a friend, and the kid is full of it. But, who's to say this kid doesn't go to another rated pilot to see if they want to go "fly"?
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The reverse side of a student pilot certificate clearly shows the limitation "Passenger-carrying prohibited."
 
Re: PPL student allowed to fly with "Friends" on Solo flight

Contrail the Kid said:
Thanks Guy, that's basically what I was looking for; weather or not I should approach his instructor, or just let it be.
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I know I've walked away from conversations and then later had a third party tell me what the other person thought I said and it had taken a major twist along the way. I'm sure if the situation were reversed and one of your students put a major twist in what you said you would really appreciate someone letting you know about it before your student went out and did something to get both of you in trouble. You will either be doing the other instructor a favor or you'll get an opportunity to explain things to a CFI with a serious gap in his knowledgebase.
 
Re: PPL student allowed to fly with "Friends" on Solo flight

Maybe the way he worded it was off and the fact that he asked you to go along, as a CFI, was his reasoning for asking you to go with him.
 
Re: PPL student allowed to fly with "Friends" on Solo flight

Contrail the Kid said:
So a young kid I know who is working towards his private license asked me if I wanted to go fly with him while he flew his solo (his second or third one). He said that his instructor (an older guy) told him he could take a friend along if he wanted. I was very confused by the question and somewhat appalled.

I mean, from my perspective it's called a solo for a reason. I just can't imagine ever letting someone fly under my ticket with a passenger (pilot or not) during a solo. The kid's words were literally "my flight instructor said I could bring a friend if I wanted." On my first cross country solo I was busy filling out my nav log, and notifying traffic at each airport I flew over, doing my checklist items (approach, etc.), I literally wouldn't have had time to "entertain" another pilot. I think taking someone along on a solo would be a huge distraction. The airspace this student will be flying out of is HIGHLY congested with student traffic and is fairly busy to begin with.

Any thoughts? Maybe some people do that, I just have NEVER heard of it, and I wouldn't in my wildest dreams think of telling one of my students that was an option.
Click to expand...

Well...I sure hope you wouldn't imagine giving that advice...I imagine the kid misunderstood his CFI, I can't imagine an instructor putting his certs. on the line like that.
 
Re: PPL student allowed to fly with "Friends" on Solo flight

My guess would be that it was a miss understanding between that student and his CFI. Maybe his CFI said that he could bring friends along on the lessons, implying their dual flying, and the student assumed that the CFI meant any of his flying. This is a good example of why I always tell my students that can bring a friend along on our DUAL flights together, as long as they won't be too major of a distraction. Later in the private training, I sometimes even ask them to bring someone with at least once in the 172 if they haven't brought someone on their own already. I think it gives them a good opportunity to practice a briefing, and practice at monitoring and entertaining a passenger during the flight. Passengers are one extra distraction that they will have to face with their license, that would be good for them to experience before getting their certificate.
 
Re: PPL student allowed to fly with "Friends" on Solo flight

Contrail the Kid said:
So a young kid I know who is working towards his private license asked me if I wanted to go fly with him while he flew his solo (his second or third one). He said that his instructor (an older guy) told him he could take a friend along if he wanted. I was very confused by the question and somewhat appalled.

I mean, from my perspective it's called a solo for a reason. I just can't imagine ever letting someone fly under my ticket with a passenger (pilot or not) during a solo. The kid's words were literally "my flight instructor said I could bring a friend if I wanted." On my first cross country solo I was busy filling out my nav log, and notifying traffic at each airport I flew over, doing my checklist items (approach, etc.), I literally wouldn't have had time to "entertain" another pilot. I think taking someone along on a solo would be a huge distraction. The airspace this student will be flying out of is HIGHLY congested with student traffic and is fairly busy to begin with.

Any thoughts? Maybe some people do that, I just have NEVER heard of it, and I wouldn't in my wildest dreams think of telling one of my students that was an option.
Click to expand...

Either his CFI is out to lunch or he wholly misunderstood what his CFI told him.

Man, this situation has "revocation" and a Dear Dough" letter written all over it.
 
Re: PPL student allowed to fly with "Friends" on Solo flight

Nobody flamed the OP, but I felt the preheaters warming up :) I guess my aversion to wearing nomex sitting on the couch keeps me from starting too many threads. That said, "yo, dude what were you thinkin' ??"
 
Re: PPL student allowed to fly with "Friends" on Solo flight

I know this type of thing sometimes goes on at international flight schools, but not on the PPL license, more like commercial time-building...

Example: An Indian student has 140 hours, PPL, Instrument Rated, now satisfying the cross country requirements for Part 61 to get his Commercial ASEL, and he needs to satisfy some of the solo XC requirements...the School won't allow the foreigner students to take the aircraft solo when it is nighttime, but can go "solo" as long as an instructor is with the airplane. So the student does the night flight and logs it as solo/night/cross country/PIC... the instructor sat in the backseat the entire time listening to his iPod and never said one word to the student between engine startup and shutdown... remember, the instructor is simply there to babysit the airplane hahaha! The student does not pay the instructor for this babysitting because the instructor literally didn't speak one word to him, the instructor is compensated by the school in a different manner not relating to the flight
So, yes I realize what you all are thinking about the rubbish I just typed, and yes I know that it is rubbish, but I promise you that it happens all of the time!

And while what I just typed isn't "solo" as per the FAR's...it is definitely FAR AND AWAY DIFFERENT from what the thread-author typed. What it sounds to me is like that kid is going out soloing the airplane on his student pilot certificate and is taking along other people, people who may or may not be rated pilots! There is absolutely ZERO chance that I would EVER let that happen on my Instructing certificate under any circumstances, especially if these passengers were NON-pilots!
In my opinion, the student pilot needs to be immediately spoken to about it and all of the pertinent regulations refreshed with him, as well as his instructor!
 
Re: PPL student allowed to fly with "Friends" on Solo flight

Speaking of wierd time building schemes, I have a Spanish friend that has this restriction on his FAA PPC "Holder must be accompanied by Spain (sic) pilot when exercising privileges." ??? I ask him, and it was done as part of his JAA timebuilding training in the US.

sorry for the hijack, just playing off JWP 145s post.
 
Re: PPL student allowed to fly with "Friends" on Solo flight

jwp_145 said:
I know this type of thing sometimes goes on at international flight schools, but not on the PPL license, more like commercial time-building...

Example: An Indian student has 140 hours, PPL, Instrument Rated, now satisfying the cross country requirements for Part 61 to get his Commercial ASEL, and he needs to satisfy some of the solo XC requirements...the School won't allow the foreigner students to take the aircraft solo when it is nighttime, but can go "solo" as long as an instructor is with the airplane. So the student does the night flight and logs it as solo/night/cross country/PIC... the instructor sat in the backseat the entire time listening to his iPod and never said one word to the student between engine startup and shutdown... remember, the instructor is simply there to babysit the airplane hahaha! The student does not pay the instructor for this babysitting because the instructor literally didn't speak one word to him, the instructor is compensated by the school in a different manner not relating to the flight
So, yes I realize what you all are thinking about the rubbish I just typed, and yes I know that it is rubbish, but I promise you that it happens all of the time!

And while what I just typed isn't "solo" as per the FAR's...it is definitely FAR AND AWAY DIFFERENT from what the thread-author typed. What it sounds to me is like that kid is going out soloing the airplane on his student pilot certificate and is taking along other people, people who may or may not be rated pilots! There is absolutely ZERO chance that I would EVER let that happen on my Instructing certificate under any circumstances, especially if these passengers were NON-pilots!
In my opinion, the student pilot needs to be immediately spoken to about it and all of the pertinent regulations refreshed with him, as well as his instructor!
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