I must have posted the wrong link before, let me know what all you JC'ers think of this, I hope it will help the industry so get the word out-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH1uwZlWVDE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH1uwZlWVDE
Pilot salaries- how to avoid dying in a plane crash-youtube
- Thread starter westleyb
- Start date
Itchy
Well-Known Member
Re: Pilot salaries- how to avoid dying in a plane crash-yout
Kinda over the top. Despite the attitude in the video, airline travel is a pretty damn safe way to travel. If it were not, there would be more changes. And people dying in little airplanes = nothing from John Q Public.
Kinda over the top. Despite the attitude in the video, airline travel is a pretty damn safe way to travel. If it were not, there would be more changes. And people dying in little airplanes = nothing from John Q Public.
Re: Pilot salaries- how to avoid dying in a plane crash-yout
It isn't news, and it doesn't offer a solution. When pilots insist on being treated better, then they'll receive better treatment. No non-aviation citizen is going to appeal to a member of congress over this because 1) they've got more important issues such as employment and foreclosure; 2) US aviation safety is arguably the safest method of transportation in the world; 3) higher aircrew compensation will raise air fares.
I agree that pilots should be paid more - much more. But when I read on this board about pilots accepting flying "jobs" that don't pay little or nothing - from dusting crops to putting out skydivers to teaching students to flying freight in light twins - then nothing will change.
It isn't news, and it doesn't offer a solution. When pilots insist on being treated better, then they'll receive better treatment. No non-aviation citizen is going to appeal to a member of congress over this because 1) they've got more important issues such as employment and foreclosure; 2) US aviation safety is arguably the safest method of transportation in the world; 3) higher aircrew compensation will raise air fares.
I agree that pilots should be paid more - much more. But when I read on this board about pilots accepting flying "jobs" that don't pay little or nothing - from dusting crops to putting out skydivers to teaching students to flying freight in light twins - then nothing will change.
C150J
Well-Known Member
Re: Pilot salaries- how to avoid dying in a plane crash-yout
I appreciate your concern for the industry, but I agree with TomOKC. I have very little sympathy for someone who is $100,000 in debt and knowingly agrees to the terms of employment of a low-paying job. There is a drastic difference between Sully - who signed a much different CBA initially - and a recent flight school grad who has had the ability to research the known hardships of regional flying.
Professional pilots deserve more, of course. But the only way we're going to get it is through higher standards for employment (college degree, hour requirements, coursework requirements), not claiming that an airline executive is forcing us to make unsafe decisions.
I appreciate your concern for the industry, but I agree with TomOKC. I have very little sympathy for someone who is $100,000 in debt and knowingly agrees to the terms of employment of a low-paying job. There is a drastic difference between Sully - who signed a much different CBA initially - and a recent flight school grad who has had the ability to research the known hardships of regional flying.
Professional pilots deserve more, of course. But the only way we're going to get it is through higher standards for employment (college degree, hour requirements, coursework requirements), not claiming that an airline executive is forcing us to make unsafe decisions.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
Re: Pilot salaries- how to avoid dying in a plane crash-yout
Itchy
Well-Known Member
titansox
Well-Known Member
Re: Pilot salaries- how to avoid dying in a plane crash-yout
Good effort but I agree it was a bit over the top. To much Hans Zimmer (didn't know there was such a thing). I also don't really agree with the safety angle you took. Air travel is pretty dang safe. I absolutely agree that the system is crap and needs to change, but I don't think safety is the way to make that argument.
Good effort but I agree it was a bit over the top. To much Hans Zimmer (didn't know there was such a thing). I also don't really agree with the safety angle you took. Air travel is pretty dang safe. I absolutely agree that the system is crap and needs to change, but I don't think safety is the way to make that argument.
Re: Pilot salaries- how to avoid dying in a plane crash-yout
Im sure he does live on >$20K a year. Probably much more.
Im sure he does live on >$20K a year. Probably much more.
Pilotforhire587
Lycra Man
Re: Pilot salaries- how to avoid dying in a plane crash-yout
so what Colgan guys recognize the Redhead Captain in the Frontline vid who quit after the crash? I don't want to mention any names.
I agree with the message but that was a bit dramatic
so what Colgan guys recognize the Redhead Captain in the Frontline vid who quit after the crash? I don't want to mention any names.
I agree with the message but that was a bit dramatic
Cal Goat
Prestige Worldwide™
Re: Pilot salaries- how to avoid dying in a plane crash-yout
Ugh... I'm studying for a checkride tomorrow. Brain not work good right now.
Ugh... I'm studying for a checkride tomorrow. Brain not work good right now.
dustoff17
Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
Re: Pilot salaries- how to avoid dying in a plane crash-yout
I'll be the first to jump on board that pilots new to the industry aren't paid enough.
However, I'm not connecting the pay with safety either. My inference is if pilots are paid more, they would make decisions that will keep them from crashing. For example, If I were a pilot that made $40k to start I would be willing to pay for my own hotel room when I commute, or I would remember not to pull the yoke when the plane stalls. Did I follow the video correctly?
It's a great attempt at getting a message across but I'm in agreement with the others......the video is way out there!
I'll be the first to jump on board that pilots new to the industry aren't paid enough.
However, I'm not connecting the pay with safety either. My inference is if pilots are paid more, they would make decisions that will keep them from crashing. For example, If I were a pilot that made $40k to start I would be willing to pay for my own hotel room when I commute, or I would remember not to pull the yoke when the plane stalls. Did I follow the video correctly?
It's a great attempt at getting a message across but I'm in agreement with the others......the video is way out there!
block30
Well-Known Member
Re: Pilot salaries- how to avoid dying in a plane crash-yout
Good venue (youtube) and points for John Q Flying Public, but yeah, a little too over the top. I think the attempt to drive home the critical nature of events actually detracts from the seriousness of the video.
As far as avoiding dying in a plane crash, I must say from personal experience to any new CFIs, be damn careful if you are doing Sport Pilot training. If you don't believe in God, you will. If you do believe in God, you won't. That's by far the scariest group of students and airplanes I've dealt with. I say that without one hint of trying to be funny. Further, any new CFIs need to be very careful dealing with foreign students, as I've observed personally and have also been related horror stories about. Not bad people, but a lot of gotchas you can read about in the FOIs come true with foreign students.
Fly safe, minimize the risks..
Good venue (youtube) and points for John Q Flying Public, but yeah, a little too over the top. I think the attempt to drive home the critical nature of events actually detracts from the seriousness of the video.
As far as avoiding dying in a plane crash, I must say from personal experience to any new CFIs, be damn careful if you are doing Sport Pilot training. If you don't believe in God, you will. If you do believe in God, you won't. That's by far the scariest group of students and airplanes I've dealt with. I say that without one hint of trying to be funny. Further, any new CFIs need to be very careful dealing with foreign students, as I've observed personally and have also been related horror stories about. Not bad people, but a lot of gotchas you can read about in the FOIs come true with foreign students.
Fly safe, minimize the risks..
ProudPilot
Aeronautics Geek
Re: Pilot salaries- how to avoid dying in a plane crash-yout
I will admit that I've seen a lot more safety talk since I moved to railroading then I ever did flying. It was always said that Safety is first while flying, but it was more an assumption that you would be safe and most items were punishing those who management didn't feel was safe (not that all of that was wrong, but the safety clause got a lot of people fired for no good reason). Here safety is rewarded and people get training if management doesn't feel that things are going right. It's basically impossible to get fired and people still make 100K+. The big difference I see is that an airline flight = $400 of profit. One train, one segment = $25,000 of profit. Not hard to see why things are different. Fares can't be kept incredible low like this forever.
Want to become a millionaire? Become a billionaire then start an airline, you'll soon be a millionaire.
I will admit that I've seen a lot more safety talk since I moved to railroading then I ever did flying. It was always said that Safety is first while flying, but it was more an assumption that you would be safe and most items were punishing those who management didn't feel was safe (not that all of that was wrong, but the safety clause got a lot of people fired for no good reason). Here safety is rewarded and people get training if management doesn't feel that things are going right. It's basically impossible to get fired and people still make 100K+. The big difference I see is that an airline flight = $400 of profit. One train, one segment = $25,000 of profit. Not hard to see why things are different. Fares can't be kept incredible low like this forever.
Want to become a millionaire? Become a billionaire then start an airline, you'll soon be a millionaire.
Re: Pilot salaries- how to avoid dying in a plane crash-yout
Wow - I posted on YouTube that the music was loud & overly-melodramatic, and I get blowback about the Colgan families not thinking so. Wow - THAT'S helpful! I lost one of my closest friends in a helo crash, and it doesn't take a video and music to bring back his memory, nor the great lessons he taught me about being a great pilot, husband, and living a good life.
Wow - I posted on YouTube that the music was loud & overly-melodramatic, and I get blowback about the Colgan families not thinking so. Wow - THAT'S helpful! I lost one of my closest friends in a helo crash, and it doesn't take a video and music to bring back his memory, nor the great lessons he taught me about being a great pilot, husband, and living a good life.
dustoff17
Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
Re: Pilot salaries- how to avoid dying in a plane crash-yout
Good point....the video really plays on emotion and not enough on the real issues that face our pilot community. It's too bad that emotion controls people most of the time.
I lost a friend in a helo crash too, just north of OKC.
Good point....the video really plays on emotion and not enough on the real issues that face our pilot community. It's too bad that emotion controls people most of the time.
I lost a friend in a helo crash too, just north of OKC.
Re: Pilot salaries- how to avoid dying in a plane crash-yout
So, I read these, but I would also like to see some other solutions. I saw this on youtube, and loved your opinions, but I also would like to see what else anyone thinks can be done. I am just currently a student pilot, but have kept an eye on the industry for years, in fact, I joined the military, just so I could eventually get school paid for and fly. I am in search of solutions to improve the QoL. I think the increased mins will help, but what else can be done? Where else do you pay 100K for an education and start making 20-25k for salary? I know some may say "at least you have a job" but thats not even true anymore. Solutions anyone? Thanks for your thoughts.
So, I read these, but I would also like to see some other solutions. I saw this on youtube, and loved your opinions, but I also would like to see what else anyone thinks can be done. I am just currently a student pilot, but have kept an eye on the industry for years, in fact, I joined the military, just so I could eventually get school paid for and fly. I am in search of solutions to improve the QoL. I think the increased mins will help, but what else can be done? Where else do you pay 100K for an education and start making 20-25k for salary? I know some may say "at least you have a job" but thats not even true anymore. Solutions anyone? Thanks for your thoughts.
Re: Pilot salaries- how to avoid dying in a plane crash-yout
The public will never support higher salaries for pilots, rock stars, CEOs, Walmart workers, etc. The only way for wages to go up,
--- adjusted for inflation,
--- sustainable over the long haul,
is to limit supply of pilots. ANYTHING short of this will not work long term.
As long as there is an endless supply of SJS wannabes, wages will stay low, keep Satan (a.k.a. Roger Cohen) in a new Lamborghini and a waterfront mega home with a pool, dock, yacht, etc.
As you are trying to sleep during the day from flying all night, he will be working on his tan out by the pool before his afternoon hair appointment at Hair Club For men.
Although lip plumping injections are usually only for women, he really should consider it.
The public will never support higher salaries for pilots, rock stars, CEOs, Walmart workers, etc. The only way for wages to go up,
--- adjusted for inflation,
--- sustainable over the long haul,
is to limit supply of pilots. ANYTHING short of this will not work long term.
As long as there is an endless supply of SJS wannabes, wages will stay low, keep Satan (a.k.a. Roger Cohen) in a new Lamborghini and a waterfront mega home with a pool, dock, yacht, etc.
As you are trying to sleep during the day from flying all night, he will be working on his tan out by the pool before his afternoon hair appointment at Hair Club For men.
Although lip plumping injections are usually only for women, he really should consider it.
ZapBrannigan
If it ain’t a Boeing, I’m not going. No choice.
Re: Pilot salaries- how to avoid dying in a plane crash-yout
Let's leave the hair club for men out of this...
Let's leave the hair club for men out of this...
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
Re: Pilot salaries- how to avoid dying in a plane crash-yout
My dad was a wise old sage, and among his many observations he shared with me was this: "If playing a musical instrument makes you happy, then do it, and do your best. Hopefully you'll end up in a great orchestra or band, but don't expect to make much money. For that you'll want to get into business." And the discussion turned to that. His point could be extended to those who fly professionally today. Do it because it's something that you love, that you're truly drawn to, something you do well, and as we all say, "I'd do it for free, but they pay me!" Today's low wages cause direct pain, but the frustration is that the pay has dropped and people can't accept what is in light of what was. It's a painful paradigm shift.
Pilots are underpaid for what they do, as are police officers, teachers, priests, nurses and those in many other professions. Will high compensation come back? Almost certainly not. So don't fly for the money - fly for the love of it, take pride in what you do, do your best in every minute of every flight, and challenge others in the profession to do the same.
My dad was a wise old sage, and among his many observations he shared with me was this: "If playing a musical instrument makes you happy, then do it, and do your best. Hopefully you'll end up in a great orchestra or band, but don't expect to make much money. For that you'll want to get into business." And the discussion turned to that. His point could be extended to those who fly professionally today. Do it because it's something that you love, that you're truly drawn to, something you do well, and as we all say, "I'd do it for free, but they pay me!" Today's low wages cause direct pain, but the frustration is that the pay has dropped and people can't accept what is in light of what was. It's a painful paradigm shift.
Pilots are underpaid for what they do, as are police officers, teachers, priests, nurses and those in many other professions. Will high compensation come back? Almost certainly not. So don't fly for the money - fly for the love of it, take pride in what you do, do your best in every minute of every flight, and challenge others in the profession to do the same.
Murdoughnut
Well sized member
Re: Pilot salaries- how to avoid dying in a plane crash-yout
This is a good point. Most industries have seen a decrease in salaries (relative to COL and inflation) in the last decade. It seems anymore that only my IT and banking friends are bringing home the six digit salaries.
This is a good point. Most industries have seen a decrease in salaries (relative to COL and inflation) in the last decade. It seems anymore that only my IT and banking friends are bringing home the six digit salaries.