Holy Spin training batman...

Actually did only one spin so far, in a 172 a few days before I got my PPL. At first the airplane didn't want to spin, then after a violent entry, it didn't want to EXIT the stall. CFI: "Forward yoke break the stall(nothing happens)...umm...ok...its wound in really tight here...uh...shove it forward with me...". About 4,000 feet and 6 rotations later, I wasn't having a good day. Regardless of why that happened, eff doing that ever again.
 
Actually did only one spin so far, in a 172 a few days before I got my PPL. At first the airplane didn't want to spin, then after a violent entry, it didn't want to EXIT the stall. CFI: "Forward yoke break the stall(nothing happens)...umm...ok...its wound in really tight here...uh...shove it forward with me...". About 4,000 feet and 6 rotations later, I wasn't having a good day. Regardless of why that happened, eff doing that ever again.

I had something similar happen in a Citabria, but I blame it on my 200 lb CFI in the back seat shifting the CG near (but not all the way to) the rear limit of the aerobatic category, and we knew and accepted this having calculated the W&B ahead of time. Plus we let it flatten out through a few rotations on purpose. "Power idle, Ailerons neutral, Opposite Rudder, Stick forward to break the stall" *nothing* "Stick forward to break the STALL" *push more... nothing* "Oh %@^!... STICK FORWARD TO BREAK THE STALL!!!" *SLAM!* (Recovery)

We were wearing chutes but I hadn't actually contemplated ever using one before that moment. All things considered it was still pretty fun, I learned from it and I look forward to doing it again. :D
 
The spin demonstration for my PPL was 3 complete turns (was still required back in the stone age then). For my CFI spin endorsement, we never did more than a quarter turn.

Wusses (regarding bolded text).

And yes, I know most primary airplanes aren't certificated for more than one turn.
 
BANG BANG! What rudder?? Opposite rudder??? AGRESSIVE! AGRESSIVE, I SAY!


Now this is a spin... or 34 3/4 to be exact....
[video=youtube;pkXvVpVJDB0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkXvVpVJDB0[/video]

I dont think I had any problem getting it to spin...
 
Actually did only one spin so far, in a 172 a few days before I got my PPL. At first the airplane didn't want to spin, then after a violent entry, it didn't want to EXIT the stall. CFI: "Forward yoke break the stall(nothing happens)...umm...ok...its wound in really tight here...uh...shove it forward with me...". About 4,000 feet and 6 rotations later, I wasn't having a good day. Regardless of why that happened, eff doing that ever again.

If you should ever be in that situation again, try full aft yoke/stick for a couple of seconds with anti-spin rudder to decelerate the spin (about a full turn, turn and a half, something like that), and then aggressive full forward to the stops and hold it. We used to have that in the T-37 sometimes. Maybe the student wouldn't have full anti-spin rudder (only halfway in or whatever), or WRONG rudder, or he would move the stick forward to break the stall too slowly and you would wind up in this really accelerated wrapped-up spin instead of a recovery. You'd have to do the aft-stick and hold procedure (with proper anti-spin rudder) to slow the spin rate and then re-apply the recovery correctly to get out.
 
BANG BANG! What rudder?? Opposite rudder??? AGRESSIVE! AGRESSIVE, I SAY!


Now this is a spin... or 34 3/4 to be exact....

I dont think I had any problem getting it to spin...

Wow, that is kinda scary...I would get dizzy. That is the first time I have ever even seen a video of a spin. I have all my ratings and have never done a spin nor seen a plane do a spin before, just read about it in books.
 
If an airplane is "approved for spins" under it's operating limitations, then it has been spin tested/certified under the aerobatic category requirements. I'm not sure of all the testing details, but I know it involves recovery from a 6 turn spin in a plethora of configurations.

Airplanes that are "Not approved for spins" but are certified, have to demonstrate recovery as well. To simplify, it's a recovery from a one turn spin, at the time recovery inputs are applied it must recover with no more than one additional rotation (there's a time limitation to, I just can't remember off the top of my head).

^Oh. 3 seconds
 
THAT and the fact that he recovered from the nose low attitude while still in a bank. And yes I kept making rudder/elevator movements and wondering when his pansy ass was going to actually spin the airplane. "ooo look, the transponder switches to ground mode below XX knots, that's cool!"

Another reason why you've got to choose where you rent wisely! :)
 
At first the airplane didn't want to spin, then after a violent entry, ...

Was probably just a normal entry to a spin. The first few times you do it they all seem violent- mostly because you expect it to be little more than just another stall. After you do a few spins, you get to know what to expect and it doesn't seem as violent.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you're spinning a 172 it would be (or should be) in the utility category with a load limit of 4.4

Eh, yeah, that would be true. :) But that's still the symmetric load limit, not the asymmetric limit.
 
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Originally Posted by Troy
I have all my ratings and have never done a spin nor seen a plane do a spin before, just read about it in books.

That is truly sad.

Not a dig against you personally, but the state of the overall industry.

I'm a student working on getting my ratings. I've been frustrated in my attempts to get spin training at my regular flight school. Even the CFI's have little experience with them, and they seem to be almost afraid of them. One CFI told me that his CFI examiner offered to falsify his spin demo sufficiency check-off because he (the examiner) didn't really want to do one. My dad and grandfather were pilots. They tell me it was routine training for them, even prior to solo, and I should seek out older pilots (or maybe ex-military) who developed these skills. Looking ahead, it seems that much of my "flight training" will continue to consist of computer programming, so the plane can fly itself.

Sullenberger landed an airliner in a New York river without injuring anyone. The young pilots flying the New York commuter pulled back on the stick during a stall and killed everybody. I don't understand. What happened to training philosophy between my father and grandfather's era and mine? Does anybody here know the history of that? What am I missing?
 
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Originally Posted by Troy
I have all my ratings and have never done a spin nor seen a plane do a spin before, just read about it in books.





I'm a student working on getting my ratings. I've been frustrated in my attempts to get spin training at my regular flight school. Even the CFI's have little experience with them, and they seem to be almost afraid of them. One CFI told me that his CFI examiner offered to falsify his spin demo sufficiency check-off because he (the examiner) didn't really want to do one. My dad and grandfather were pilots. They tell me it was routine training for them, even prior to solo, and I should seek out older pilots (or maybe ex-military) who developed these skills. Looking ahead, it seems that much of my "flight training" will continue to consist of computer programming, so the plane can fly itself.

Sullenberger landed an airliner in a New York river without injuring anyone. The young pilots flying the New York commuter pulled back on the stick during a stall and killed everybody. I don't understand. What happened to training philosophy between my father and grandfather's era and mine? Does anybody here know the history of that? What am I missing?


Go and find a school that offers a true upset recovery/aerobatics course. Tell them you want some spin training, they will see you right and you'll most likely enjoy the crap out of it.......I did!

Bp244
 
Wow, that is kinda scary...I would get dizzy. That is the first time I have ever even seen a video of a spin. I have all my ratings and have never done a spin nor seen a plane do a spin before, just read about it in books.

Facepalm.jpg


(again not at you, at the state of the industry. go down to CP Aviation in Santa Paula, CA and fix that.)
 
Haha!! yeah I agree with you guys. Spin training should be required to get a private pilot license or at least a commercial. I'm studying for my single add on and CFI so I will have to do spins soon.
 
Haha!! yeah I agree with you guys. Spin training should be required to get a private pilot license or at least a commercial. I'm studying for my single add on and CFI so I will have to do spins soon.

Go do some legitimate aerobatic flying while you're at it. You just grin the whole time.
 
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Originally Posted by Troy
I have all my ratings and have never done a spin nor seen a plane do a spin before, just read about it in books.



I'm a student working on getting my ratings. I've been frustrated in my attempts to get spin training at my regular flight school. Even the CFI's have little experience with them, and they seem to be almost afraid of them. One CFI told me that his CFI examiner offered to falsify his spin demo sufficiency check-off because he (the examiner) didn't really want to do one. My dad and grandfather were pilots. They tell me it was routine training for them, even prior to solo, and I should seek out older pilots (or maybe ex-military) who developed these skills. Looking ahead, it seems that much of my "flight training" will continue to consist of computer programming, so the plane can fly itself.

Sullenberger landed an airliner in a New York river without injuring anyone. The young pilots flying the New York commuter pulled back on the stick during a stall and killed everybody. I don't understand. What happened to training philosophy between my father and grandfather's era and mine? Does anybody here know the history of that? What am I missing?

What happened? Lawyers. More accidents were happening teaching spins and unusual attitude recovery than the bean counters thought would happen if you just didn't teach it at all.

CFI's legally can't teach spins for the most part, so we are ending up with a generation of pilots with almost no experience at that end of the flight envelope. I think the result will unfortunately be unnecessary stall accidents at air carriers. In the past, this was at least taught at the PPL level. Now it isn't really taught at all.
 
At my school the Chinese contract requires 5 hours of upset recovery training per student during the first stage of commercial training. Just got done with one today and honestly I can say that it is some of the most fun that I've had instructing so far.
 
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