PNCL pilots are our brothers! Unity?

Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Jezus, I love it when you Colgan guys talk about a DOH being a screw-job for ya'll. Really?! Your most junior Captain upgrade is down to a 2010 DOH. Imagine the horror if a Colgan FO has to wait more than 12 months for an upgrade. You're crazy if you think it is legit for a 2-year Colgan guy to jump up to the equivalent of a 5 year XJ/PNCL guy. Your new CAs have seen just one winter, one summer and are already sitting left seat making "command" decisions. Meanwhile, 4-6+ year FOs at both XJ and 9E have not upgraded due to no fault of their own. I'll say it again: DOH credits you for TIME spent at YOUR airline in THIS industry. YOUR 18 MONTHS at Colgan do NOT deserve for you to get 4 to 5 YEARS equivalent at XJ or 9E.

The underlying tone of the start of this thread was that Pinnacle merger committee wants Colgan screwed and that there is no unity. That is NOT the case. The PNCL method was the *same* one (category/class) that has been used in recent arbitrator cases. When Pinnacle proposed that category/class method, they did so without any emotion. Breaking it down by equipment and position with no regard to airline. Mesaba proposing a straight-up DOH method is kinda silly, since no arbitration case has ever gone to 100% DOH for the past decade. Similarly, Colgan, IMO, proposed the biggest crap by straight-up relative integration, ensuring their low-time-spent-in-industry got years and years ahead of XJ and 9E. *At least* the Pinnacle method was realistic, from an arbitration award standpoint. Instead of pointing fingers and crying at Pinnacle, Colgan should look into past historical binding arbitration awards for senority, and look at category/class and how it applied.
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:rotfl:

No offense, but your clueless. There are NO 2010 Captains. There are NO 2009 Captains. It took me 3 years to get upgrade. Come back with some solid facts, thanks.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
The PNCL method was the *same* one (category/class) that has been used in recent arbitrator cases.
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Instead of pointing fingers and crying at Pinnacle, Colgan should look into past historical binding arbitration awards for senority, and look at category/class and how it applied.
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Why do you troll?

I ask this mainly because you can't be that ignorant. You obviously have not read any arbitration awards.

I really do look forward to reading this award though, with the 3 distinct methods of integration. Usually it's the same method, just arguing about the best way to apply it.
 
Actually there is a 2009 hire Q-400 Captain and quite a significant number of late 2008 hire Captains on the SAAB and Q.
 
BE19Pilot said:
Actually there is a 2009 hire Q-400 Captain and quite a significant number of late 2008 hire Captains on the SAAB and Q.
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Not really look at the seniority list. There is one 2009 q captain, but that isnt really true. It's Todd Assadorian who is management and going back to the Pinnacle side. On top of that, he normally flies as an Fo, on the rare occasions when he flies.
 
L-16B said:
Not really look at the seniority list. There is one 2009 q captain, but that isnt really true. It's Todd Assadorian who is management and going back to the Pinnacle side. On top of that, he normally flies as an Fo, on the rare occasions when he flies.
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Real name?
 
I think there are many misconceptions out there. I was hired at cjc in the summer of 07 and upgraded last summer, almost exactly three years after my hire date. I know there are still some 07's that and 08's that haven't upgraded yet. I know that we have worked our way through over half of our 08 hires now, that still keeps things at about a three year upgrade. I understand that the junior xj ca is summer of 07 and 9e is up to march of 07. I don't think the desperity is quite what some may think. All that being said, I will be happy with whatever spot I end up with after sli.
 
Hey Cherokee_Cruiser.....Maybe dumb question but do you actually meet the upgrade requirements? You probably came on board with your dripping wet commercial ticket, 249.6 hours, and Jet U back pack. My math says that even if you got the chance to upgrade last year you probably couldn't have any how, not to mention the fact that you actually have to pass the upgrade. You know they don't just give it to you Jet U style.

That big boom everyone will hear on Friday is CC's head exploding.
[modhat] let's not take such blatant shots [/modhat]
 
ajdwings said:
Hey Cherokee_Cruiser.....Maybe dumb question but do you actually meet the upgrade requirements? You probably came on board with your dripping wet commercial ticket, 249.6 hours, and Jet U back pack. My math says that even if you got the chance to upgrade last year you probably couldn't have any how, not to mention the fact that you actually have to pass the upgrade. You know they don't just give it to you Jet U style.

That big boom everyone will hear on Friday is CC's head exploding.
[modhat] let's not take such blatant shots [/modhat]
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Yes, I meet the requirements. I had the requirements back in August 2009 assuming the mentor program of upgrading at 2000TT. Once that fell through, you could upgrade at 2,500TT if you had 1000 hrs already at Pinnacle, and I achieved that Feb 2010. Today, I have around 3,650TT. So, yes, I have the time, and no, I didn't get to be a one of those hero Captains at 1500-2500TT.

That big boom everyone will hear on Friday is CC's head exploding.
[modhat] let's not take such blatant shots [/modhat]
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Pun intended, I hope. I think it's funny how emo some of these Colgan guys get with their "we're too junior, save our positions" entitlement. But I could careless, no amounts of personal attacks will change me or my views.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I think it's funny how emo some of these Colgan guys get with their "we're too junior, save our positions" entitlement. But I could careless, no amounts of personal attacks will change me or my views.
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We're to junior, save our positions ? Shall we quote your last thread?

Hey kettle kettle... Oh wait, I forgot, you personally know more than 50% of our pilot group.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Yes, I meet the requirements. I had the requirements back in August 2009 assuming the mentor program of upgrading at 2000TT. Once that fell through, you could upgrade at 2,500TT if you had 1000 hrs already at Pinnacle, and I achieved that Feb 2010. Today, I have around 3,650TT. So, yes, I have the time, and no, I didn't get to be a one of those hero Captains at 1500-2500TT.
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Good, congrats ! I hope you get to upgrade after Friday. I'm betting you will anyhow and all this whining is for nothing! Lord know I don't want to fly with you.
 
Man I wish that dudes computer would get a virus already. Putting my head in a vice would be less painful then reading some of that crap!
 
This thread is rather comical, so let me add something of value.....

You should all bow to the the greatness that is me. After all, each of you will be slinging my gear soon enough.....since, I'm sooo amazingly awesome I will maintain currency on all PNCL Corp aircraft.....each week, I'll be Captain Amazing on a different type. What's that you ask??? Oh yes, you may now touch the gear handle....BUT NOTHING ELSE. Bask in my greatness you silly little FO!



In all seriousness now.....

Ok, so why are all the panties in a bunch??? The list will be what it will be, you don't have control of it, so let it go. Some of you are going to stroke out before you hit 40. We will all move forward as one group, and deal with whatever we're given.....this is arbitrated airline SLI 101. Learn to cope now, your stress level will thank you later.

Polar, thanks for adding a well thought out argument/ opinion to this thread. It's refreshing to see independent, rational discussion being solicited, instead of the me, Me, ME stuff that's been floating around by some on here.
 
Cruise said:
Ok, so why are all the panties in a bunch??? The list will be what it will be, you don't have control of it, so let it go. Some of you are going to stroke out before you hit 40. We will all move forward as one group, and deal with whatever we're given.....this is arbitrated airline SLI 101. Learn to cope now, your stress level will thank you later.
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Exactly. I'm not feeling good about how this is going to work out for you guys unless there are a lot more people that think like Cruise. I cannot fathom why guys would blame other pilots for a decision made solely by an outside being. Relax...you can't change ANYTHING, so just go fly airplanes and enjoy life.
 
SteveC said:
Exactly. I'm not feeling good about how this is going to work out for you guys unless there are a lot more people that think like Cruise. I cannot fathom why guys would blame other pilots for a decision made solely by an outside being. Relax...you can't change ANYTHING, so just go fly airplanes and enjoy life.
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Ask US Airways guys............ they'll tell you.
 
WalterSobchak said:
I agree. If the most senior guy a 9L is a 99 guy then he shouldnt be put with Mesaba's 82-88 hires. There is no reasonable expectation of that. Maybe put him at roughly at number 350 or so and work some percent from there taking into account DOH.


Considering how the fleets and the pilot groups line up the DOH would be more fair than you think, but its not perfect either.

A combination of the two is the best way to do it. The top 26 should be mesaba considering express I was not yet invented. Then they could break it down every 200 pilots and analyze it block by block.

However PA28Crasher essentially thinks that current seniority means nothing according to his bizarre logic. He just wants it arranged by what aircraft you are on. I'm venturing a guess he went to JetU and believes the add with the 172, Beech 1900, and CRJ with the caption telling you how AWSOME being a JET FO is. CRJ FO #1 :pirate:!!!!!!!!
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Most senior 9L Pilot is 92 hire...
 
SmitteyB said:
Most senior 9L Pilot is 92 hire...
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He's a 92002 that worked as a MX for 6 (or was it 8?) years until he came over as a pilot. My understanding was they changed his DOH to something meaningful. Now perhaps 93004 would make more sense. Perhaps you should worry less about positioning yourself as anything other than a junior pilot group compared to Mesaba when everyone at Mesaba has the CJC list.

To add, at quick glance there at 90 guys senior to 93004, your next guy is still 97 right? there's about 60 or 70 in between on your next guy. Ok let's see, there's an '04 hire... there's only about 30ish guys ahead of him on your list and there are 430 on ours... wait that can't be right. Nope wait.. it is.
 
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