This is why pilots are paid soo little....

Tram said:
I thought you already had 3 gigs lined up?

You join here as your "friend" and now you're the guy who placed the ad?

A word of advice.. Stop lying..

I know that was bad and stupid of me all at the same time...Just didn't know how to approach all the 3 pages of criticism that had lined up against me...anyway Im quickly finding out you guys are really here to help... You have my word I won't lie

Ok so anyway, the gigs were like you guys said (yeah i know I know). One was to ferry a C182RG from den to atl with 1975 TBO on it..I SAID NO WAY. then there was a guy who wanted me to fly a highly experimental taildragger aircoupe. Called him up and said the rudders don't work much before 45 knots and this guy had modified the tail section and put c150 landing gears and all this weird crap. I finally said no to that...

Google Tim Martins to find out what happens to pilots who lie a lot..
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This was all a terrible move on my part and you called my bluff...NO more lying

The gigs I had were aweful (like you guys have said). This one was a C182 with 1975 on the TBO and I said no way. Other one was an experimental taildragger aircoupe that the owner said doesn't have much rudder authority before 45 knots
 
Clipper5895h said:
U GUYS STILL DON"T GET THE POINT: You can't do it for the money and money should never count as a representation for someones worth or abilities. If the greatest flight instructor charged for what he was worth no one could afford to learn from him or benefit from his abilities and he would might as well never have got his cfi. But, if he can help everyone around him then he has made something of his life and put back into the industry he devoted his life too.
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I'm not sure how to confront this line of logic.

It sounds as though you're saying the purpose of life is ultimately to make a difference in the lives of others. Fair enough. I don't disagree with that.

And it sounds like you don't see how a person's pay directly correlates to their value in the world. Again, good point. I don't disagree with this, either.

However, you say if the best flight instructors charged what they are worth, nobody could afford to learn from them. How do you figure? I totally disagree with this.

People prioritize everything in life. If they really want something, they find a way to afford it. My hourly rate is $54/hour for teaching. I'm just as busy now, maybe even busier, than when I was charging $30/hour several years ago. Money is an arbitrary number. There is no magic cutoff line where people will no longer pay it. They only have to see the value of what they're getting. My clients obviously think the time they spend with me is worth $54/hour, otherwise they wouldn't be my clients.

It's your job, as a professional, to help them see how valuable your services are. And you can do that regardless of what other pilots do. This game isn't all about flight time. It's about flight time...and how you dress, how you talk, who you know, what types of planes you've flown, how good your judgment is, how safe you'll be, how mature you are, how well you interact with people, how accurate your paperwork is, etc. That's why you, with 450 hours, can ABSOLUTELY compete with a 2000 hour pilot. You might not have the flight time, but that doesn't mean you can't excel in other areas of professionalism. You need to convince potential clients through words and actions that their plane is in better hands with you than anyone else. That decision is made on the client's end by looking at way more than flight time.

Finally, there is the simple reality of needing to survive in life. I'm not looking to get filthy rich. I'm looking to have a comfortable life where I'm not eating ramen every night and stressing about how I'm going to pay rent this month. That means I have to charge for my time. It's noble to say, "I want to make myself accessible to as many pilots as possible, for the good of the world," but you can't pay bills with noble actions. You're not being fair to yourself or respecting yourself to say otherwise. There's nothing wrong with wanting to make a living, all while making a difference in the world. That's what I do every day.
 
Tram said:
Nah, he really is Loren Thompson.. Most likely son of Tom Thompson..

Clipper is a PA-16..

5895H is a 1949 model Clipper his dad owns.. Who is most likely also who is letting him use his pass travel..
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Yep u guessed it...anyway I'm not using the pass stuff cause its just plain stuipd if i get caught

BTW...Your not going to pay money to look up my criminal records or hire a private investiagtor to follow me are you?????
 
jrh said:
I'm not sure how to confront this line of logic.

It sounds as though you're saying the purpose of life is ultimately to make a difference in the lives of others. Fair enough. I don't disagree with that.

And it sounds like you don't see how a person's pay directly correlates to their value in the world. Again, good point. I don't disagree with this, either.

However, you say if the best flight instructors charged what they are worth, nobody could afford to learn from them. How do you figure? I totally disagree with this.

People prioritize everything in life. If they really want something, they find a way to afford it. My hourly rate is $54/hour for teaching. I'm just as busy now, maybe even busier, than when I was charging $30/hour several years ago. Money is an arbitrary number. There is no magic cutoff line where people will no longer pay it. They only have to see the value of what they're getting. My clients obviously think the time they spend with me is worth $54/hour, otherwise they wouldn't be my clients.

It's your job, as a professional, to help them see how valuable your services are. And you can do that regardless of what other pilots do. This game isn't all about flight time. It's about flight time...and how you dress, how you talk, who you know, what types of planes you've flown, how good your judgment is, how safe you'll be, how mature you are, how well you interact with people, how accurate your paperwork is, etc. That's why you, with 450 hours, can ABSOLUTELY compete with a 2000 hour pilot. You might not have the flight time, but that doesn't mean you can't excel in other areas of professionalism. You need to convince potential clients through words and actions that their plane is in better hands with you than anyone else. That decision is made on the client's end by looking at way more than flight time.

Finally, there is the simple reality of needing to survive in life. I'm not looking to get filthy rich. I'm looking to have a comfortable life where I'm not eating ramen every night and stressing about how I'm going to pay rent this month. That means I have to charge for my time. It's noble to say, "I want to make myself accessible to as many pilots as possible, for the good of the world," but you can't pay bills with noble actions. You're not being fair to yourself or respecting yourself to say otherwise. There's nothing wrong with wanting to make a living, all while making a difference in the world. That's what I do every day.
Click to expand...
:yeahthat::clap::clap::clap::clap::yeahthat:
 
MikeD said:
I'm personally indifferent. Makes no difference to me whether these guys have a successful career or not.
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That's what you say, but I doubt you really mean this.

You wouldn't bother to post in these threads and offer so much guidance if you didn't care at all, on any level.



Or else you have the sickest, most messed up sense of entertainment I've ever seen.

I'd be bored out of my mind reading JC if I had no intention of ever helping anyone.
 
Tram said:
Nah, he really is Loren Thompson.. Most likely son of Tom Thompson..

Clipper is a PA-16..

5895H is a 1949 model Clipper his dad owns.. Who is most likely also who is letting him use his pass travel..
Click to expand...

Nice! Wonder if his dad will let me take the Clipper out for a couple splash n' goes? Maybe even let me get my AMES rating in it? I mean, It would have to be free just cause I really enjoy flying Clippers and it would truly make a difference in my life.

What do you say there mr Clipper? Can you hook a brother up with a free AMES rating? Heck, I might even buy ya lunch!

:sarcasm:

Sounds pretty lame, huh?
 
Clipper5895h said:
honestly didn't know you couldn't use em for this before the forum anyway...what good are they then?
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For getting yourself to and fro.. Not really for "commercial activities."

I'm not 100% sure though.. Ask whoever you're getting them through to check..

If it were ok to use them, I'd let the guy who I just ferried a plane for give me the cash for the ticket and call it a day.. $150 for the day, $350 plane ticket.. Now your starting to work on some QOL.. ;)
 
jrh said:
Oh. My. Goodness.

So much drama. I can't believe I just saw a JC member go from "Hi guys, I'm new here," to "You guys suck, I'm taking my ball and going home," in only seven posts.

That has to be some sort of record.

The thing I don't understand is how a person like Clipper can be so clueless to people trying to help him. I don't post here because I'm trying to boost my own pay, make myself feel better, or rip on the new guy. It's because I legitimately want to help people. I've learned some lessons from my own experiences/observations over the years and I'd like to pass on these lessons to guys with less experience. Hopefully save them the trouble of learning it the hard way.

Then what do they do? Come here, act like they know best, get pissed off, take their ball, and leave. Ok. Whatever. It makes me shake my head in astonishment.

Hopefully the next newbie will be more receptive to solid advice.
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Wasn't there a Yogi-ism along the lines of "Some folks, if they don't know, you can't tell em?"

We all get like that sometimes.

;)
 
jrh said:
That's what you say, but I doubt you really mean this.

You wouldn't bother to post in these threads and offer so much guidance if you didn't care at all, on any level.



Or else you have the sickest, most messed up sense of entertainment I've ever seen.

I'd be bored out of my mind reading JC if I had no intention of ever helping anyone.
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Let me clarify.....when I say "these guys", I mean these particular guys in this very thread. It's obvious they have their mind made up no matter what anyone tells them, so I say let them go on and see what it gets them. But if it fails, then they just might be willing to listen to people that know better.

Thats my angle. They think they've got all the answers and it all figured, then go out and try doing the $35 gig (or whatever the heck it is). Let us know how it works for you.
 
At the end of the day I hope you(clipper34934thsf) realize that this isn't just a forum where people pick on each other. Yeah the piling on happens sometimes but at the end of the day you'll get some great advice. I'll tell you what I tell almost everyone who joins here, read more than you type and listen more than you talk. You'll get some great information here, some pretty cool stories, and maybe even make a friend or two. Eventually you'll look back at this thread and just laugh at yourself. I've done it to myself and I'm sure almost everyone on here can look back and think of how naive we once were.
You'll gain a lot more experience and do much more for your career if you just forgot about the ferry deal at $35 an hour and just networked on here and listen to what people have to say rather than try to prove your right. This isn't just the interwebz it's more of a community. Either contribute or leave and never come back, but what your doing now is doing nothing but hurt yourself in the end.

Merry Christmas.
ERAU '05
 
Clipper5895h said:
but you can't ferry an airplane, get your cfi, fly patrol, due sight seeing tours within a 25 mile radius, or anthing else FAR 119.1 says you can do with your commercial. Look you need to make money at some point to have a living (standard 0f living is a definintion that is dependent upon the person) to due the things you love....so thats why the $35 bucks???
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Like I said before the flight time will come. When I was at UND earning my CFI and CFII in 2006 the hiring boom was in full swing and there were a few instructors there that were pushing 1500TT, they were all high time lead instructors and we looked up to them like they were top dogs. If your like I was then, I'm assuming your dropping your rates so low to get as much flight time as possible and get into a regional and move on. Like I said in my previous thread just enjoy the ride, the flight time will come.

Like others have said on here if you work 20 days per month at $35/day thats only $700/month. Why not charge 150/day, even if you only 9-10 days per month thats still $1500/month, more than double what you were making before, then you can fill the rest of your days bartending or whatever. If you put up a website like me... make business cards, drop them of at every airport you go to and hand them out to everyone you meet! I say this knowing I'm making more competition for myself but theres going to plenty of work coming up down here this next year, especially if your in a good aviation state like FL, TX, or CA.

Make more, work less, and relax knowing the flight time WILL come! Life is more enjoyable that way!
 
Tram said:
Nah, he really is Loren Thompson.. Most likely son of Tom Thompson..

Clipper is a PA-16..

5895H is a 1949 model Clipper his dad owns.. Who is most likely also who is letting him use his pass travel..
Click to expand...

He still could be flaming. I'm sorry but even a riddle grad doesn't make the typos and grammatical errors this dude makes. "Due" and "do". I seriously don't think I have ever seen that one messed up before.
 
tlewis95 said:
Hah, exactly. His contribution made this thread so much more valuable and "facepalm-able" for anyone else who reads it with a similar idea. :yar:!
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After searching for SteveC's profile picture I ended up finding this

2331862131_83a611ed18.jpg
 
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