This is why pilots are paid soo little....

"One of the biggest hangups in aviation as a whole, are pilots who are continually worried/angry/concerned/aghast/whatever over what other pilots are doing"

Interesting. I see the opposite for the most part, but I don't participate in many discussions either.
 
Clipper5895h said:
what r u talking about here???
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He is talking about you defending yourself for working at less than minimum wage.

Honestly, I am not sure why you are so hostile towards people who have been around this game for quite a while. They were only trying help you! How could you NOT want to charge what its actually worth for your services? It makes no sense that you want to argue with those saying that your service as a ferry pilot are worth more than 35$ a day!
 
Clipper5895h said:
well i guess all these rants and posts make ppl feel better about their own life so you know what...I'm done with ya all...see you on top when i'm in the left seat...thanks for everyone who has defended me and i appreciate the views of those that disagree with me...Peace on earth and a merry christmas to all..this will be my very last post in this worthless forum lol :D
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Try to view this thread as people wanting to help you out. I know it can be embarrassing to get "called out" by people that don't know you. Just try to be thick skinned and let yourself hear the message.
 
jrh said:
Oh. My. Goodness.

So much drama. I can't believe I just saw a JC member go from "Hi guys, I'm new here," to "You guys suck, I'm taking my ball and going home," in only seven posts.

That has to be some sort of record.

The thing I don't understand is how a person like Clipper can be so clueless to people trying to help him. I don't post here because I'm trying to boost my own pay, make myself feel better, or rip on the new guy. It's because I legitimately want to help people. I've learned some lessons from my own experiences/observations over the years and I'd like to pass on these lessons to guys with less experience. Hopefully save them the trouble of learning it the hard way.

Then what do they do? Come here, act like they know best, get pissed off, take their ball, and leave. Ok. Whatever. It makes me shake my head in astonishment.

Hopefully the next newbie will be more receptive to solid advice.
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Shows you how receptive the aviation industry is now adays to fellow pilots...looks like their hiring just about anyone with little worth thats made their career low balling everyone and "not listening to anyone one of these High charging considered experts." I told myself I'd stay away but couldn't do it...U GUYS STILL DON"T GET THE POINT: You can't do it for the money and money should never count as a representation for someones worth or abilities. If the greatest flight instructor charged for what he was worth no one could afford to learn from him or benefit from his abilities and he would might as well never have got his cfi. But, if he can help everyone around him then he has made something of his life and put back into the industry he devoted his life too...by the way ADVICE????, ok man reread the post???? REALLY??? They all just try and take there shot at me>AND I'm not telling anyone what to do, don't twist my intentions of my post around ok, just give me that decency if your going to join in on dissing a fellow aspiring airline pilot man o man no wonder the industry is falling apart. I've talked to a number of old pilots and they are the most outstanding ppl you could ever meet...thats why things were the way there were and are the way they are today...
 
Clipper5895h said:
what r u talking about here???
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Clipper, I'm going to be very blunt here because I don't know of a better way to say this:

Everything about you, to this point, screams "I'm not a professional. I don't take myself seriously, and I'm not very mature, either."

I don't know what it will take for you to become a professional. Maybe (hopefully!) it will be your discussions with people from this forum.

Or maybe it will be the school of hard knocks. When you have something scary happen to you on a ferry flight, get put in to a position you don't want to be in, deal with clients who treat you poorly, etc. I don't know.

This issue is WAY deeper than the daily rate you intend to charge. Ultimately this comes down to how you view yourself, your services, and your value.

True professionals see themselves as valuable. They don't give themselves away at the drop of a hat. They don't get pissed when other people speak poorly of them, because ultimately a true professional is right...or at least mature enough to admit when they were wrong. They don't come on an internet message board and pretend to be somebody they're not. They don't communicate in text-speak. High school kids do that.

There are plenty of people on this forum who honestly want you to have a successful career (myself included). You can converse with them in a reasonable manner and try to learn something, or you can kick, scream, yell, and leave.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck in the future.
 
Old Skool, I'm trying not to get angry its just tough...see these guys are not looking at all the prospectives, What if i just wanted to do it for free...All i wanted to do was get out of the cold of the midwest while i was on christmas break and fly something other then a c172...THEN all of the sudden before I know it, people i will eventually fly with are calling me on the phone saying I'm degrading my worth, I'm no better then a cheap hooker or a scab. That is not helping in my book, helping is encouragement to maybe up your prices because your new to the industry and perhaps you should consider upping your rate. Not making you fear that you will get caught by the faa and all you'll get is airplanes all this business about engines quitting and your not up to the challenge of flying blah blah blah...i just wanna fly and who cares what I charge. Believe it or not, I've got plenty of wise people around me that have been in this industry for a combined hundreds of years sooo I'll go with what they say but thanks........ :)
 
Clipper5895h said:
Shows you how receptive the aviation industry is now adays to fellow pilots...looks like their hiring just about anyone with little worth thats made their career low balling everyone and "not listening to anyone one of these High charging considered experts." I told myself I'd stay away but couldn't do it...U GUYS STILL DON"T GET THE POINT: You can't do it for the money and money should never count as a representation for someones worth or abilities. If the greatest flight instructor charged for what he was worth no one could afford to learn from him or benefit from his abilities and he would might as well never have got his cfi. But, if he can help everyone around him then he has made something of his life and put back into the industry he devoted his life too...by the way ADVICE????, ok man reread the post???? REALLY??? They all just try and take there shot at me>AND I'm not telling anyone what to do, don't twist my intentions of my post around ok, just give me that decency if your going to join in on dissing a fellow aspiring airline pilot man o man no wonder the industry is falling apart. I've talked to a number of old pilots and they are the most outstanding ppl you could ever meet...thats why things were the way there were and are the way they are today...
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I still fail to see how anyone is dissing you here. Youre the one that is refusing to take advice! Remember, this forum is primarily made up of professional pilots and those who aspire to be professionals. You make comments about how it should be for the love and freedom blah blah, and then defend charging less than minimum wage to do a job that several pilots on here do for a living. These guys have been in the game much longer than you and are trying to coach the rookie (you). But you think you know it all and refuse to take the advice and argue. Is that how your "old time pilot" buddies act?
 
Clipper5895h said:
Shows you how receptive the aviation industry is now adays to fellow pilots...looks like their hiring just about anyone with little worth thats made their career low balling everyone and "not listening to anyone one of these High charging considered experts." I told myself I'd stay away but couldn't do it...U GUYS STILL DON"T GET THE POINT: You can't do it for the money and money should never count as a representation for someones worth or abilities. If the greatest flight instructor charged for what he was worth no one could afford to learn from him or benefit from his abilities and he would might as well never have got his cfi. But, if he can help everyone around him then he has made something of his life and put back into the industry he devoted his life too...by the way ADVICE????, ok man reread the post???? REALLY??? They all just try and take there shot at me>AND I'm not telling anyone what to do, don't twist my intentions of my post around ok, just give me that decency if your going to join in on dissing a fellow aspiring airline pilot man o man no wonder the industry is falling apart. I've talked to a number of old pilots and they are the most outstanding ppl you could ever meet...thats why things were the way there were and are the way they are today...
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If you are only worth $35/day then fine, go home and tell all your buddies how dumb we are. BUT! In the off chance that you might deem your skill level to be worth a little more money, then perhaps you need to stop being offended and HEAR the message. (SJS)
 
This thread is what Christmas miracles are all about.

Tonight you will be visited by three ghosts.
Aviation past
future &
present.

I honestly hope you stick around, not so we "make you" see the errors of your ideas, but so you can see things from a broader view.
 
Look man, nobody is telling you to price so high that you won't get customers. What everyone is saying is that you shouldn't lowball YOURSELF. Most people here said they could care less what you charge because it isn't going to hurt them. Most people here want to help out, believe it or not, this is how it happens. Take your ribbing, learn and price yourself at a respectable wage that one can actually live on.

We aren't trying to run you off the site or out of the aviation biz. Doing what you love is ideal, it is what most people want in life. You have the tools to do just that, a love of everything aviation, and the required certs. The fact that Tram called you and tried to actually physically speak to you about upping your wage speaks volumes. He could have just started the thread here to whine about the industry and we all could have lined up and taken our shots without you ever knowing that people thought poorly of your choice, but he didn't. Lots of the people on here are some of the most passionate outstanding people you could ever meet as well, but you have to stick around and talk to them, learn from them and grow yourself as an aviator who calls himself a professional.

Step back, take a deep breath and try and see the other side of the coin. Was the thread possibly pretty mean at some points, yeah. But coming on here assuming a different identity and defending working for an unlivable wage probably wasn't the best choice. My advice, Slow your role, seriously think about what some of the outstanding aviators here have said and learn.

I may be the first to welcome you to Jetcareers, it is an absolute gold mine of knowledge, wit, humor and sometimes heated arguments. But in the end, the vast majority of us would share a 6 pack with everyone else. (even if we are mean to each other sometimes)
 
jrh said:
There are plenty of people on this forum who honestly want you to have a successful career (myself included). You can converse with them in a reasonable manner and try to learn something, or you can kick, scream, yell, and leave.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck in the future.
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I'm personally indifferent. Makes no difference to me whether these guys have a successful career or not. I'm still wondering why some people here are getting so worked up about what other people are doing, whether it's stupid or not. These guys are going to what they're going to do, regardless of what people tell them.
 
jrh said:
Clipper, I'm going to be very blunt here because I don't know of a better way to say this:

Everything about you, to this point, screams "I'm not a professional. I don't take myself seriously, and I'm not very mature, either."

I don't know what it will take for you to become a professional. Maybe (hopefully!) it will be your discussions with people from this forum.

Or maybe it will be the school of hard knocks. When you have something scary happen to you on a ferry flight, get put in to a position you don't want to be in, deal with clients who treat you poorly, etc. I don't know.

This issue is WAY deeper than the daily rate you intend to charge. Ultimately this comes down to how you view yourself, your services, and your value.

True professionals see themselves as valuable. They don't give themselves away at the drop of a hat. They don't get pissed when other people speak poorly of them, because ultimately a true professional is right...or at least mature enough to admit when they were wrong. They don't come on an internet message board and pretend to be somebody they're not. They don't communicate in text-speak. High school kids do that.

There are plenty of people on this forum who honestly want you to have a successful career (myself included). You can converse with them in a reasonable manner and try to learn something, or you can kick, scream, yell, and leave.

Whatever you decide to do, good luck in the future.
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You know what old skool your right...I did handle it all like a child and I will try to learn from you guys. All i ask is even though your experienced, don't be so quick to judge that I can't handle these situations just because I'm not charging what everyone else is. I love to learn from everyone around me and I'm a quick learner so what do you say? U seem like the wisest guy in her
 
cheyenne said:
if you are only worth $35/day then fine, go home and tell all your buddies how dumb we are. But! In the off chance that you might deem your skill level to be worth a little more money, then perhaps you need to stop being offended and hear the message. (sjs)
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ben right??? I think your completely missing my point about pricing and your own worth>>>
 
Clipper5895h said:
Yep because thats exactly what I was intending by that...ahhhhhhhhhhhh
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What do you think the word "commercial" means?

You really should wise up and stick around. It is amazing the networking and knowledge that is available on this site, where everyone is really trying to help. You might even get a laugh or two out of it as well! :)
 
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