This is why pilots are paid soo little....

I've participated in more than a few debates over the issue of rates as a ferry pilot. I used to charge in the $150-175 range per day plus expenses... now with some prompting from the JC crew I've updated my rates to the $175 to $250 range depending upon the aircraft and nature of the trip. All that said, part of me wants to get pissed and rant since I've lost and continue to lose trips to these low time guys that undercut me. But now, with 1800TT now and a few war stories under my belt I'll tell you... If he's willing to risk his life and fly solid IMC in the mountains in a beat up 172 with a localizer needle that bounces +/- 5 degrees on the ILS for $35/day? then good luck. I'm sick of flying these junk boxes for 175/day. Most clients are very professional and respectful and some even think I'm too cheap which is definitely flattering... but occasionally I get a sour puss that say 175?/day!?!?! your crazy!... and usually they want me to fly a 172, 152, or Piper Warrior.... I think I'm going to start charging 500/day for single engine and 300/day for multi... most of these singles are way more likely to kill me!
 
Let me tell you guys a little story I've learned about life...

There once was a man who entered the flying industry because of the money it offered. Working his way through the ranks, he never could find himself a job that he was completely satisfied with the salary. He worked at a sight seeing job first in AZ and never seemed to care much for the beauty that his eyes constantly were privileged to gaze upon or the unique people that he was able to meet. All he could focus on was the $ he could gain in the end. Finally, he made it to the airlines and always cursed and complained about being underpaid that everyone around him instantly felt depressed and always made it a point to stay away from him. He never once stopped to enjoy the scenery of the United States or the vast cities that he regularly flew into. He never once thought of the now, only the future. Finally, through many begrudging years, he became a captain flying international routes making the big bucks. But, it was never enough and he always said that the only way to judge a pilot was by the $ they where receiving. Yet, he failed to realize that since he really never enjoyed flying, he wasn't any good at it. Then, when he was 65 he was forced to retired, a fat, bald and alone old man with nothing to reminisce about to few friends and no wife to share his adventures with.

Then, their was the pilot that entered the aviation industry for the adventure and privilege to get paid see the beauty of the earth at 35000 ft and the uniqueness of everyone around him. This pilot at first struggled to build hours and usually did most of his flying for free. But, in that time, he met many extraordinary people with fascinating adventures. He finally built enough hours to be hired at a sight seeing company and flew cessnas around the grand canyon. During his time, he had the privilege to have the best office view in the world while sharing and starting a new adventure with each new client. He say the fears of people dissipate and the smile and happiness it brought them when they knew they were in good hands. He was such an outgoing guy and passionate pilot, that one of his customers, an airline president on vacation with his family, took notice and offered him a position at a major airline carrier. Now, here he was, flying his dream job at only 22 with more money then he had ever dreamed of at that age. When he was on layovers, everyone gravitated toward his outgoing and passionate personality. Here, he also met his future wife, a beautiful stewardess who instantly fell in love with the way the man lived life. Eventually, he made it to the big time routes and checked out as captain at only 28. He lived his dream, was married happily with children who he personally taught to fly, and never ever worked a day in his life. On his death bed, he confessed that he wouldn't take back a single day that he lived, because he knew he was lucky enough to have life each day exactly the way he had always wanted. The life he lived inspired everyone around him and thousands of family, friends and pilots alike gathered at his funeral, respecting a truly great man.

As you can, the second man was never in it for the money or fame, but for some reason it found him. He never bad mouthed the people around him even when they did things that didn't make sense to him and for it, he died a well respected, missed and honored individual.

I ask each one of you to evaluate the professionalism of this forum. We have crated a 3 page rant on an individual who evidently is the lucky few in aviation that is doing it for the love, freedom, and passion of the magic of flight. He is unable to defend himself in this private forum and is doing what so many of us can, see that you cannot place a value on ones abilities, so don't judge people by the worth of how much they charge. To me, it looks like he has more time upside in a pitts then anyone of you guys have sitting here wasting your time bad mouthing a fellow aviator. He will never work a day in his life and will be the envy of everyone around him who does. Its his blessing but also his curse...

For all of you who say he's undercutting the aviation industry, if all it takes is a kid to charge 35 an hour then its hardly an industry at all don't you think

Life is all about gaining a different persecutive as one matures, and maybe just maybe he has a different perspective and privilege in life that makes him more experienced then most.

So to rap it up, I send my kudos to this kid for figuring out so early in life that its not about how much your worth, its about finding what you love and going out and doing it. Blue skies and light winds to ya kid on wherever your flying might take ya
 
Let me tell you guys a little story I've learned about life...

There once was a man who entered the flying industry because of the money it offered. Working his way through the ranks, he never could find himself a job that he was completely satisfied with the salary. He worked at a sight seeing job first in AZ and never seemed to care much for the beauty that his eyes constantly were privileged to gaze upon or the unique people that he was able to meet. All he could focus on was the $ he could gain in the end. Finally, he made it to the airlines and always cursed and complained about being underpaid that everyone around him instantly felt depressed and always made it a point to stay away from him. He never once stopped to enjoy the scenery of the United States or the vast cities that he regularly flew into. He never once thought of the now, only the future. Finally, through many begrudging years, he became a captain flying international routes making the big bucks. But, it was never enough and he always said that the only way to judge a pilot was by the $ they where receiving. Yet, he failed to realize that since he really never enjoyed flying, he wasn't any good at it. Then, when he was 65 he was forced to retired, a fat, bald and alone old man with nothing to reminisce about to few friends and no wife to share his adventures with.

Then, their was the pilot that entered the aviation industry for the adventure and privilege to get paid see the beauty of the earth at 35000 ft and the uniqueness of everyone around him. This pilot at first struggled to build hours and usually did most of his flying for free. But, in that time, he met many extraordinary people with fascinating adventures. He finally built enough hours to be hired at a sight seeing company and flew cessnas around the grand canyon. During his time, he had the privilege to have the best office view in the world while sharing and starting a new adventure with each new client. He say the fears of people dissipate and the smile and happiness it brought them when they knew they were in good hands. He was such an outgoing guy and passionate pilot, that one of his customers, an airline president on vacation with his family, took notice and offered him a position at a major airline carrier. Now, here he was, flying his dream job at only 22 with more money then he had ever dreamed of at that age. When he was on layovers, everyone gravitated toward his outgoing and passionate personality. Here, he also met his future wife, a beautiful stewardess who instantly fell in love with the way the man lived life. Eventually, he made it to the big time routes and checked out as captain at only 28. He lived his dream, was married happily with children who he personally taught to fly, and never ever worked a day in his life. On his death bed, he confessed that he wouldn't take back a single day that he lived, because he knew he was lucky enough to have life each day exactly the way he had always wanted. The life he lived inspired everyone around him and thousands of family, friends and pilots alike gathered at his funeral, respecting a truly great man.

As you can, the second man was never in it for the money or fame, but for some reason it found him. He never bad mouthed the people around him even when they did things that didn't make sense to him and for it, he died a well respected, missed and honored individual.

I ask each one of you to evaluate the professionalism of this forum. We have crated a 3 page rant on an individual who evidently is the lucky few in aviation that is doing it for the love, freedom, and passion of the magic of flight. He is unable to defend himself in this private forum and is doing what so many of us can, see that you cannot place a value on ones abilities, so don't judge people by the worth of how much they charge. To me, it looks like he has more time upside in a pitts then anyone of you guys have sitting here wasting your time bad mouthing a fellow aviator. He will never work a day in his life and will be the envy of everyone around him who does. Its his blessing but also his curse...

For all of you who say he's undercutting the aviation industry, if all it takes is a kid to charge 35 an hour then its hardly an industry at all don't you think

Life is all about gaining a different persecutive as one matures, and maybe just maybe he has a different perspective and privilege in life that makes him more experienced then most.

So to rap it up, I send my kudos to this kid for figuring out so early in life that its not about how much your worth, its about finding what you love and going out and doing it. Blue skies and light winds to ya kid on wherever your flying might take ya
You may like lollipops and rainbows, me I want cold hard cash and lots of it.
 
We'll you are in the wrong industry then. You should have become a rocket scientist so you could have purchassed your own airplane, or not.

How to make money in aviation:

Start out with a large fortune and end up with a small fortune. Something like that anyway.
 
Let me tell you guys a little story I've learned about life...

There once was a man who entered the flying industry because of the money it offered. Working his way through the ranks, he never could find himself a job that he was completely satisfied with the salary. He worked at a sight seeing job first in AZ and never seemed to care much for the beauty that his eyes constantly were privileged to gaze upon or the unique people that he was able to meet. All he could focus on was the $ he could gain in the end. Finally, he made it to the airlines and always cursed and complained about being underpaid that everyone around him instantly felt depressed and always made it a point to stay away from him. He never once stopped to enjoy the scenery of the United States or the vast cities that he regularly flew into. He never once thought of the now, only the future. Finally, through many begrudging years, he became a captain flying international routes making the big bucks. But, it was never enough and he always said that the only way to judge a pilot was by the $ they where receiving. Yet, he failed to realize that since he really never enjoyed flying, he wasn't any good at it. Then, when he was 65 he was forced to retired, a fat, bald and alone old man with nothing to reminisce about to few friends and no wife to share his adventures with.

Then, their was the pilot that entered the aviation industry for the adventure and privilege to get paid see the beauty of the earth at 35000 ft and the uniqueness of everyone around him. This pilot at first struggled to build hours and usually did most of his flying for free. But, in that time, he met many extraordinary people with fascinating adventures. He finally built enough hours to be hired at a sight seeing company and flew cessnas around the grand canyon. During his time, he had the privilege to have the best office view in the world while sharing and starting a new adventure with each new client. He say the fears of people dissipate and the smile and happiness it brought them when they knew they were in good hands. He was such an outgoing guy and passionate pilot, that one of his customers, an airline president on vacation with his family, took notice and offered him a position at a major airline carrier. Now, here he was, flying his dream job at only 22 with more money then he had ever dreamed of at that age. When he was on layovers, everyone gravitated toward his outgoing and passionate personality. Here, he also met his future wife, a beautiful stewardess who instantly fell in love with the way the man lived life. Eventually, he made it to the big time routes and checked out as captain at only 28. He lived his dream, was married happily with children who he personally taught to fly, and never ever worked a day in his life. On his death bed, he confessed that he wouldn't take back a single day that he lived, because he knew he was lucky enough to have life each day exactly the way he had always wanted. The life he lived inspired everyone around him and thousands of family, friends and pilots alike gathered at his funeral, respecting a truly great man.

As you can, the second man was never in it for the money or fame, but for some reason it found him. He never bad mouthed the people around him even when they did things that didn't make sense to him and for it, he died a well respected, missed and honored individual.

I ask each one of you to evaluate the professionalism of this forum. We have crated a 3 page rant on an individual who evidently is the lucky few in aviation that is doing it for the love, freedom, and passion of the magic of flight. He is unable to defend himself in this private forum and is doing what so many of us can, see that you cannot place a value on ones abilities, so don't judge people by the worth of how much they charge. To me, it looks like he has more time upside in a pitts then anyone of you guys have sitting here wasting your time bad mouthing a fellow aviator. He will never work a day in his life and will be the envy of everyone around him who does. Its his blessing but also his curse...

For all of you who say he's undercutting the aviation industry, if all it takes is a kid to charge 35 an hour then its hardly an industry at all don't you think

Life is all about gaining a different persecutive as one matures, and maybe just maybe he has a different perspective and privilege in life that makes him more experienced then most.

So to rap it up, I send my kudos to this kid for figuring out so early in life that its not about how much your worth, its about finding what you love and going out and doing it. Blue skies and light winds to ya kid on wherever your flying might take ya

Its funny that you live in the same town as this ferry pilot, you have the exact amount of hours he does, the same ratings, your on his side of the argument, just happened to register to JC to post here first, you mis-spell the same words...
 
L

I ask each one of you to evaluate the professionalism of this forum. We have crated a 3 page rant on an individual who evidently is the lucky few in aviation that is doing it for the love, freedom, and passion of the magic of flight. He is unable to defend himself in this private forum and is doing what so many of us can, see that you cannot place a value on ones abilities, so don't judge people by the worth of how much they charge. To me, it looks like he has more time upside in a pitts then anyone of you guys have sitting here wasting your time bad mouthing a fellow aviator. He will never work a day in his life and will be the envy of everyone around him who does. Its his blessing but also his curse...

Wow.. your story was...touching.. Actually though, I agree with you for the most part.. If the kid wants to charge $10 a day, fine with me.. I wouldn't hire to him wash my plane at $10 much less $35.. The local airplane washer kids around here get at least $75/plane they're a group of pot heads..

He isn't doing it for the "magic of flight." He's doing it because at 450 hours he doesn't feel he can "get any gigs" charging that much because all the guys who charge that much have "like 1,500 to 2000 hours..."

Also, it's not a private forum.. He is perfectly able to defend himself, he knows both it and this thread exist.. Kinda odd that your first post is into this thread defending him.. ;)

So you believe he has gobs of inverted Pitts time because of a a picture of him RIDING upside down in a Champion and STANDING next to a Pitts? :) That's quality right there..

Its funny that you live in the same town as this ferry pilot, you have the exact amount of hours he does, the same ratings, your on his side of the argument, just happened to register to JC to post here first, you mis-spell the same words...

Yeh.. Odd, eh? :)
 
Seriously you guys need to get a life outside of this forum (looking up peoples profiles and locations,geez). Your rotting away your flying time sitting here...That was some great detective work and looks like you guys are super passionate but this stuff. If you must know, He's a friend of mine at riddle and I think he deserves a little more respect then any of us are giving him...I signed up for this after he showed me this. He told me that everyone was just shocked and really didn't know what to say. I think you guys are all just jealous but w/e...Anyway its your life as it is his do with it what you want but never judge because everyone is a hypocrite
 
I just don't understand why you are afraid to charge a decent wage? You just went to ERAU and paid 200,000 for your degree? Very few people can fly an airplane only about in every 100 in the United States, even fewer actually have a Commercial and only 1% of those 1% (of every 100) hold a CFI. Don't let anyone talk you down or make you feel less than what you are.

I say this too because I'm a UND grad, but since I'm down in FL I work with ERAU grads and students all the time. ERAU runs its school on intimidation and fear and beats their pilots charging them $200 for accidently spilling a drop of fuel on the ground, automatically no-showing them because they're 1 minute late for a flight (regardless of traffic or if your mom died). Flying is supposed to fun, its supposed to be enjoyable. It can certainly be stressful at times, but so is anything in life. I guess what I'm trying to say is enjoy what you do and don't be afraid or intimidated to make money and be successful. As "easy" as a 172 is to fly, its not THAT easy and not just anyone can do it.

Don't forget that, and don't feel bad or apologize to anyone. All the regional airline CEOs, all the rich cocky millionaire aircraft owners, and everyone else has pilots running a guilt trip about wanting to make a good money. Were in one of the most respectable industries there is. And the biggest thing... DON'T WORRY ABOUT THE FLIGHT TIME! It will come, trust me we all had 300hours at one point. Just relax and enjoy the ride!
 
Seriously you guys need to get a life outside of this forum (looking up peoples profiles and locations,geez). Your rotting away your flying time sitting here...That was some great detective work and looks like you guys are super passionate but this stuff. If you must know, He's a friend of mine at riddle and I think he deserves a little more respect then any of us are giving him...I signed up for this after he showed me this. He told me that everyone was just shocked and really didn't know what to say. I think you guys are all just jealous but w/e...Anyway its your life as it is his do with it what you want but never judge because everyone is a hypocrite

I bolded the pot versus kettle stuff for you, but you raise a good point.. Respect..

Why do you think he (you) deserves more respect? Why should he (you) get more respect? He (you) obviously doesn't respect himself (yourself). He (you) doesn't (don't) respect himself (yourself) enough to charge the "going rate" for services provided.. He (you) told me on the phone that he (you) didn't think he (you) could "be paid the same money guys with 1,500 to 2,000 hours..." Like I told him (you), he (you) should charge what the guys around him charge..

Tell you what, get him to respect himself and we'll respect him as well..

Respect is earned, not just handed out..
 
Seriously you guys need to get a life outside of this forum (looking up peoples profiles and locations,geez). Your rotting away your flying time sitting here...That was some great detective work and looks like you guys are super passionate but this stuff. If you must know, He's a friend of mine at riddle and I think he deserves a little more respect then any of us are giving him...I signed up for this after he showed me this. He told me that everyone was just shocked and really didn't know what to say. I think you guys are all just jealous but w/e...Anyway its your life as it is his do with it what you want but never judge because everyone is a hypocrite

I'm not sure anyone is really jealous - most of us actually have flying jobs and are fairly happy to be flying around. I can't blame the kid for being ambitious - all of the 'magic' of flight and stuff is good and all... however that is aviation's achillles' heel. I don't personally have anything against the kid - as a matter of fact, I'd predict that he'll either change his rates eventually or not get any business.


All that I'm saying is that he doesn't know yet what he's doing or getting into. I don't feel threatened in any way, shape, or form... all of the ferry jobs I have received (a pretty decent amount) in the past year have been from word of mouth and being able to do certain things that some owners don't want to mess with (i.e. flywires, ferry permits, etc) as well having some good friends who are A&Ps that I trust to take care of squawks and/or annuals en route with little cost to the owner.

The first time your friend (or you) lands at an airport with no brakes or a dead engine... meanwhile the owner is 1500 miles away and trusts you to figure out the situation - you (or he will) change the rates.

It isn't about just flying an airplane from point a to point b - Auctioning your services to the lowest bidder will not yield good results... many owners do understand that there is a lot to getting a new (or new to another owner) to the buyer and they will pay accordingly. Every person and their mom has an add for a "ferry pilot" on barnstormers - it doesn't mean half of the know what they're doing - many owners I've talked to know that.
 
How much does a regional pilot make per day? What is the going rate for a ferry pilot? Seems like the Regional pilot deserves about $500 per day if you go by the posts on this thread. So, is the regional pilot degrading the industry by not getting paid properly for his service?
 
From Barnstormers:

FERRY PILOT AND CFI,CFIIAVAILABLE
CSEL/CMEL Inst. Ferry rates at Very Low rates $50 a day plus travel expenses(ANYWHERE)!!!! I have experience with everything from a Cessna 150/172's to Cirrus, Piper, Beechcraft, Experimental, light twins, Diamonds up to a Chieftain/Navajo 1100TT.Also offering Flight Instructing. • Broker - located Dallas, TX USA • Posted December 24, 2010

I FERRY TAILDRAGGERSSPREAD THE WORD! Experienced Commercial Tailwheel Pilot Will Ferry Any Taildragger For Expenses. Great References! • End User - located Apple Valley, CA USA • Posted December 23, 2010 •

Plenty of guys with the same idea. FYI - I don't have a dog in this hunt, I just read these threads for amusement.
 
From Barnstormers:

FERRY PILOT AND CFI,CFIIAVAILABLE
CSEL/CMEL Inst. Ferry rates at Very Low rates $50 a day plus travel expenses(ANYWHERE)!!!! I have experience with everything from a Cessna 150/172's to Cirrus, Piper, Beechcraft, Experimental, light twins, Diamonds up to a Chieftain/Navajo 1100TT.Also offering Flight Instructing. • Broker - located Dallas, TX USA • Posted December 24, 2010

I FERRY TAILDRAGGERSSPREAD THE WORD! Experienced Commercial Tailwheel Pilot Will Ferry Any Taildragger For Expenses. Great References! • End User - located Apple Valley, CA USA • Posted December 23, 2010 •

Plenty of guys with the same idea. FYI - I don't have a dog in this hunt, I just read these threads for amusement.

You'll get paid what you're worth.. At one point in time, local instructors were getting $35/hour.. I raised my rate to $40/hour.. Every instructor in my area is now charging $40.. I had one of the local instructors give me grief because "We're all charging $35, you'll never get any students." I've taken more than 1 student from this instructor, albeit not on purpose.. They didn't like the instruction they were getting and were willing to pay more.. I also get $150-200/day on a single, $300-350/day on a twin..

Prosititution is said to be the oldest profession.. If the kid wants to himself out, be my guest..

I'm glad I don't have to pay back ERAU debt at $35/day.. :)
 
who said anything about erau debt when the military pays for it all?

May wanna check those facts, Maverick.. They don't pay 100% of your loans..

Got a degree from ERAU just to joing a branch of the military that would have taught you (and been better at it) for free.. Now that is quality decision making.. ;)
 
ROTC? BDCP? Pretty sure both are 100%, might even get a paycheck while attending school.

I think you've got a dog in the fight.. You call him Clipper.. :)

You two are a regular Maverick and Goose..

You're both new members, you both only care about this thread, it's cute.. :D
 
Back
Top