Flying Magazine

Ehh, you all know my thoughts on glass cockpits/advanced avionics. Best thing since sliced bread. I think it's only a matter of time before the statistics prove this.

I would have done the same thing as Goyer. Not just because I agree with him. But because there's no reason to let your magazine's web site devolve into an endless, unproductive debate.

It's the same reason if somebody got on our flight school's Facebook page and posted, "You guys suck!" I'd delete it. A person could say, "Wait, you should leave that comment up and start a dialogue about how to improve the school." Actually, not. A company Facebook page is not an unmoderated free-for-all. Its purpose it to promote the school and that isn't being accomplished by debating angry people in a very public way.

Flying Magazine's web site is no different. They don't owe you anything. If you don't like it, fine. You don't have to read it.

Personally, it's one of my favorite magazines. A good portion of my clients are the types of people who buy the types of planes discussed in Flying Magazine. It keeps me up to date with the latest and greatest gismos these people are looking for in a plane. What's even better is that I get it for free since I'm a member of NAFI.



Oh snap, that's right, I'm a member of NAFI! Have fun debating the value of that organization now...

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
 
jrh said:
Ehh, you all know my thoughts on glass cockpits/advanced avionics. Best thing since sliced bread. I think it's only a matter of time before the statistics prove this.

I would have done the same thing as Goyer. Not just because I agree with him. But because there's no reason to let your magazine's web site devolve into an endless, unproductive debate.

It's the same reason if somebody got on our flight school's Facebook page and posted, "You guys suck!" I'd delete it. A person could say, "Wait, you should leave that comment up and start a dialogue about how to improve the school." Actually, not. A company Facebook page is not an unmoderated free-for-all. Its purpose it to promote the school and that isn't being accomplished by debating angry people in a very public way.

Flying Magazine's web site is no different. They don't owe you anything. If you don't like it, fine. You don't have to read it.

Personally, it's one of my favorite magazines. A good portion of my clients are the types of people who buy the types of planes discussed in Flying Magazine. It keeps me up to date with the latest and greatest gismos these people are looking for in a plane. What's even better is that I get it for free since I'm a member of NAFI.



Oh snap, that's right, I'm a member of NAFI! Have fun debating the value of that organization now...

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
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Except the comment wasn't "You guys suck!" it was a respectful and detailed analysis from an engineer that cited reliability of small electric circuits vs. mechanical gyros, cited decision making - which isn't always enhanced, cited the feeling of invincibility that can lead people in well equiped airplanes to feel like more than they are, cited current accident statistics that dispoved Goyer's premise. Additionally - it was Goyer who took the smart ass "I know better than everyone" tone and then when he got owned (in a very respectful manner that could have been productive) - they deleted the offending comment.

I stand by my premise: Goyer is a • and Flying is nothing more than Sporty's with a couple good columns thrown in. It certainly isn't a place where you will find reasonable editorial give and take. It is the aviation equivalent of Fox News or MSNBC.
 
jrh said:
Ehh, you all know my thoughts on glass cockpits/advanced avionics. Best thing since sliced bread. I think it's only a matter of time before the statistics prove this.
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Well sliced bread sucks, to stay like that and be sliced they have to feel it preservatives.....for the glass cockpit I agree with you but the problem is that so far most of the training and the standards teaching TAAs has been poor.

As for now there are more fatal accidents with TAAs, most of this planes where for business or personal use (FLYING target readers)...
 
WacoFan said:
Except the comment wasn't "You guys suck!" it was a respectful and detailed analysis from an engineer that cited reliability of small electric circuits vs. mechanical gyros, cited decision making - which isn't always enhanced, cited the feeling of invincibility that can lead people in well equiped airplanes to feel like more than they are, cited current accident statistics that dispoved Goyer's premise. Additionally - it was Goyer who took the smart ass "I know better than everyone" tone and then when he got owned (in a very respectful manner that could have been productive) - they deleted the offending comment.
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Ok, I used my "You suck!" reference as a quick example which might not corrolate perfectly. But I stand by the principle. Flying Magazine doesn't owe anyone an open forum. Just because you want an open forum and they aren't giving you one doesn't mean they're a bad publication.

On a related note, Flying Magazine is not a newspaper with journalistic standards to uphold. It's not like they're the New York Times. They're in this business to make money and I don't recall them ever presenting themselves otherwise. Heck, they're just like everyone else. How many magazines out there *don't* do it with the intention to make money?

It's a free country. You can start a competing magazine called, "Needle, Ball, and Airspeed," and write about whatever you want, and debate whatever you want. See how well that sells.

WacoFan said:
I stand by my premise: Goyer is a • and Flying is nothing more than Sporty's with a couple good columns thrown in. It certainly isn't a place where you will find reasonable editorial give and take. It is the aviation equivalent of Fox News or MSNBC.
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There are two sides to the coin. You call Goyer a •. I call him a smart man for not getting drug in to a situation he can't handle. You call Flying Mag the equivalent of Fox News or MSNBC. I call it a successful magazine...sort of like how Fox and MSNBC have been successful, like it or not.
 
I think newer generation avionics are great. They're definitely more reliable, from what I've seen.
Consider this: In a lot of ways, modern, integrated digital avionics technology is a lot like having that third crewmember back in the flight deck. Granted, instead of having a flesh and blood button pusher, you have an Artificial Intelligence giving you pre-deduced and decoded cues about navigation and system status.

The drawback to this? This, like a human being, can malfunction. Believing that the modern nature of a design cannot or will not lead you to disaster has historically been a huge monument to the magnitude of human stupidity.

Want an example? There's a really great one on the ocean floor in one of the deepest parts of the Atlantic. Lots of people died.
I do hear that there's a really sweet nude picture of Kate Winslet on it, though, so I guess they had that going for them. That, and hypothermia.
 
WacoFan said:
Avweb USED to be cool when the columnists were Michael Maya Charles, Rick Durden, Kevin Garrison and my favorite - John Deakin. Every single day it seemed that Avweb used to have a quality article posted.
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This. Have to include Mike Busch in there.

Now Avweb is just a vehicle for Paul Bertorelli rants.
 
Flying magazine and AOPA pilot now = Professional Pilot magazine and BCA.

It's all advertising and a gee whiz techno circle jerk.

Thanks but I'd rather rather read Good Housekeeping.
 
My opinions:

1. All other things being equal, a pilot with good stick and rudder skills is safer than one with without.
2. All other things being equal, a pilot with a gee-whiz glass panel operating IFR is safer than one with steam gauges.
3. Comparing poorly skilled pilots flying glass panel aircraft with well skilled pilots flying simple aircraft makes no sense to me. Apples and oranges.
 
SteveC said:
My opinions:

1. All other things being equal, a pilot with good stick and rudder skills is safer than one with without.
2. All other things being equal, a pilot with a gee-whiz glass panel operating IFR is safer than one with steam gauges.
3. Comparing poorly skilled pilots flying glass panel aircraft with well skilled pilots flying simple aircraft makes no sense to me. Apples and oranges.
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And you agree with my harsh condemnation of Goyer and want to help me lead a boycott that will drive them out of business?
 
MikeD said:
Take your throttle to idle for a moment partner. Look what happened the last time you broke out the torches.......
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:yeahthat:

Seems as if every additional hours a pilot gains from flying makes that pilot that much more incisive to wanna comment about "their" perspective. . .and it's exactly that. . .their own PERSONAL viewpoint. . .which I take with a grain of salt.

. . .and if you wind up being a 20000 hr ATP flying for a major airline, I'll value their opinion as much as a 20000 hr Gold Seal CFI as diverse as their experiences are.

. . .and they will continue to "debate" and attempt to "prove" each other wrong as long as people as flying.
 
SteveC said:
My opinions:

1. All other things being equal, a pilot with good stick and rudder skills is safer than one with without.
2. All other things being equal, a pilot with a gee-whiz glass panel operating IFR is safer than one with steam gauges.
3. Comparing poorly skilled pilots flying glass panel aircraft with well skilled pilots flying simple aircraft makes no sense to me. Apples and oranges.
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:yeahthat:
 
WacoFan said:
Avweb USED to be cool when the columnists were Michael Maya Charles, Rick Durden, Kevin Garrison and my favorite - John Deakin. Every single day it seemed that Avweb used to have a quality article posted.
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Yeah, what happened, AvWeb?
 
jrh said:
Ehh, you all know my thoughts on glass cockpits/advanced avionics. Best thing since sliced bread. I think it's only a matter of time before the statistics prove this.
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Understandable. Some people need crutches to walk. (Zing! I'll be here all week!) :D :D

Happy Thanksgiving too!
 
jrh said:
Ehh, you all know my thoughts on glass cockpits/advanced avionics. Best thing since sliced bread. I think it's only a matter of time before the statistics prove this.
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The nice whiz-bang avionics are great when they work right. But there is a thread here right now that a CFI I belive posted about having to go missed because his 430 quit working on a GPS approach. Don't get me wrong, I love my 430's and 530's and MX500's, etc., but when it all goes to poop, and you have been relying on them too much, it's much much harder to quickly re-learn the old way. It doesn't make you any safer, but it can make you more efficent. The majority of accidents don't happen to people in round gauge airplanes in IMC. It's a very even spread of aircraft between glass and no glass. Unless you drive a Cirrus, then you can just pull the chute. ;)
 
WacoFan said:
So, Doug - if it comes down to it and you need to generate more revenue for the website - both to keep it going as well as perhaps compensate you for your time - I would be more in favor of keeping the current "open" discussions and paying a user fee as opposed to tightly controlled content or even advertisements at the level that APC now has them. Thanks for what you do.
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All I have are three basic requirements:

a. Be respectful to me and my users. I've heard it all, there's nothing you can say to hurt me that hasn't already been tried so don't waste your time, but be cordial to my users because one of them is liable to get pissed and cut your nose off. I don't tell my moderators to "pre-dig your holes" for no reason now... (:sarcasm:)
b. No matter what your opinion is, be helpful and explain yourself. "UFC is teh best sport EVAARR!" is cool, but if you can't calmly and cogently explain why, you're wasting everyone's time and doing the electronic equivalent of spray-painting "Yo, I'm a bad ass" on someone's fence. And if you're going to source something, SOURCE it. A URL to ChemTrailersAreReal.com/borrocks-birth-certificate-declared-invalid is not sourcing.
c. Don't get me on a bad website list. I'm not a prude, but the people who design website filters are.

If I have to run that many ads on the website, might as well shut it down because that just kills the user experience. Mission first, pay the bills second. Advertisers over the years have demanded I close certain topics or threads and I have to remind them that an erased bad topic is 5x worse than a calm, rational response. However, I have to agree that some people use anger + anonymity just to be a thorn in people's sides.

True story. I knew a guy who failed A LOT of checkrides where it was always, seemingly, someone else's fault. But it wasn't his fault, approach or responsibility, it wuz dat evil flight skool! YAAAAAAR! A lot time ago though.
 
Doug Taylor said:
All I have are three basic requirements:

a. Be respectful to me and my users. I've heard it all, there's nothing you can say to hurt me that hasn't already been tried so don't waste your time, but be cordial to my users because one of them is liable to get pissed and cut your nose off. I don't tell my moderators to "pre-dig your holes" for no reason now... (:sarcasm:)
b. No matter what your opinion is, be helpful and explain yourself. "UFC is teh best sport EVAARR!" is cool, but if you can't calmly and cogently explain why, you're wasting everyone's time and doing the electronic equivalent of spray-painting "Yo, I'm a bad ass" on someone's fence. And if you're going to source something, SOURCE it. A URL to ChemTrailersAreReal.com/borrocks-birth-certificate-declared-invalid is not sourcing.
c. Don't get me on a bad website list. I'm not a prude, but the people who design website filters are.

If I have to run that many ads on the website, might as well shut it down because that just kills the user experience. Mission first, pay the bills second. Advertisers over the years have demanded I close certain topics or threads and I have to remind them that an erased bad topic is 5x worse than a calm, rational response. However, I have to agree that some people use anger + anonymity just to be a thorn in people's sides.

True story. I knew a guy who failed A LOT of checkrides where it was always, seemingly, someone else's fault. But it wasn't his fault, approach or responsibility, it wuz dat evil flight skool! YAAAAAAR! A lot time ago though.
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Excellent post. Thank you for what you do. Flying Magazine is run by pansies now.
 
Well, dough took my post off that called him a double poster. That seems like an affront to free speech to me! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE! He edited everything after the fact just so that he wouldn't have any one challenge him ;)
 
ppragman said:
Well, dough took my post off that called him a double poster. That seems like an affront to free speech to me! RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE! He edited everything after the fact just so that he wouldn't have any one challenge him ;)
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See...he's just like Goyer then!
 
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