Obama Proposing $50b Spending Bill - Runways, Roads

[Orange Anchor]

I've got bad news for you, holmes; we've always been a feudal state, and while we think we're free men, we're little more than serfs. Instead of being tied to the company store, we've sold our soul to the even larger multinational corporation.

And victims. You forgot VICTIMS. We are all just so much flotsam and jetsam in this great sea of trial and tribulation.

(Sorry, gotta go, da' boss is callin'. Actually, der chef and 上司.. this week our multinational bosses are German and Chinese.)

 

[Muff3n]

I really hope we don't even further add to the deficit. I personally agree with Turbine, If they are looking for somewhere to spend more money that we don't have why not put it back into our space program.

 

[Boris Badenov]

I've got bad news for you, holmes; we've always been a feudal state, and while we think we're free men, we're little more than serfs. Instead of being tied to the company store, we've sold our soul to the even larger multinational corporation.

Ah, my litigious little friend. You have contradicted yourself. Have we always been serfs, or have we sold our souls?

 

[Orange Anchor]

Ah, my litigious little friend. You have contradicted yourself. Have we always been serfs, or have we sold our souls?

Legal question. Do serfs have and own the rights to their souls that are sold and can they, as serfs, sign contracts? Can serfs lease their souls but retain all other rights and privileges? And what is the going price for a slightly used soul versus say an old soul? And how about one that has been reincarnated a number of times versus a new soul?

 

[Mark815]

I really hope we don't even further add to the deficit. I personally agree with Turbine, If they are looking for somewhere to spend more money that we don't have why not put it back into our space program.

Because apparently nobody cares about space.

 

[greaper007]

I've got bad news for you, holmes; we've always been a feudal state, and while we think we're free men, we're little more than serfs. Instead of being tied to the company store, we've sold our soul to the even larger multinational corporation.

Very true, the recent discussions about the 14th amendment have been interesting. But no one seems to be stating the obvious, the problem with the 14th isn't anchor babies, it's the humanization of corporations. Soulless entities that have been given the same rights as citizens. There's a reason that less than 1% of the population controls more than 90% of all the capital, and that's not good for the rest of the 99%.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Because apparently nobody cares about space.

Sadly.

Very true, the recent discussions about the 14th amendment have been interesting. But no one seems to be stating the obvious, the problem with the 14th isn't anchor babies, it's the humanization of corporations. Soulless entities that have been given the same rights as citizens. There's a reason that less than 1% of the population controls more than 90% of all the capital, and that's not good for the rest of the 99%.

:yeahthat:

Also...

[yt]o76WQzVJ434[/yt]

 

[Turbine]

I really hope we don't even further add to the deficit. I personally agree with Turbine, If they are looking for somewhere to spend more money that we don't have why not put it back into our space program.

Because apparently nobody cares about space.

Sadly, people don't appreciate it. The space program is what has allowed everyone use of their cell phones, and cool 3G gadgets..yet they seem to forget this and still talk down the program.

Also jobs are lost! I don't get it, doesn't Mr. president want to save and create jobs..? I don't think cutting out 3000 jobs is a good start.

On a side note, the space shuttles were built for 100 flights each, they havent event completed 50 yet.

They need a new shuttle with new technology. Not a rocket, we went from landing in the water, to landing on a runway. Now they want to go backwards..??? The airplanes carrying thousands of people everyday have more advanced technology..the shuttle still uses old heavy relays.

Rant off.

 

[jtrain609]

Very true, the recent discussions about the 14th amendment have been interesting. But no one seems to be stating the obvious, the problem with the 14th isn't anchor babies, it's the humanization of corporations. Soulless entities that have been given the same rights as citizens. There's a reason that less than 1% of the population controls more than 90% of all the capital, and that's not good for the rest of the 99%.

Corporations were given the same rights as citizens in 1886, they're just finally hitting their stride and living up to their true potential.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Clara_County_v._Southern_Pacific_Railroad

 

[Mark815]

Sadly, people don't appreciate it. The space program is what has allowed everyone use of their cell phones, and cool 3G gadgets..yet they seem to forget this and still talk down the program.

Also jobs are lost! I don't get it, doesn't Mr. president want to save and create jobs..? I don't think cutting out 3000 jobs is a good start.

On a side note, the space shuttles were built for 100 flights each, they havent event completed 50 yet.

They need a new shuttle with new technology. Not a rocket, we went from landing in the water, to landing on a runway. Now they want to go backwards..??? The airplanes carrying thousands of people everyday have more advanced technology..the shuttle still uses old heavy relays.

Rant off.

I agree 100% with the loss of jobs, but the reason I don't think it matters is because it's not mainstream. It's not mom and pop places going out of business and it doesn't affect the average everday Joe. I think it's similar to the whole aviation user fees discussion. For pilots it's a disaster, for the average citizen you'll get 'what the hell is a user fee and who cares'. I think that's one of the reasons that the loss of thousands of jobs doesn't really phase average Americans, and that Obama can get away with it. It's sad though, I really feel like we're going totally backwards instead of forwards. We put men into space, then men on the moon, participate in an international space station, and now we axe the shuttle program with nothing in it's footsteps, doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[Turbine]

I agree 100% with the loss of jobs, but the reason I don't think it matters is because it's not mainstream. It's not mom and pop places going out of business and it doesn't affect the average everday Joe. I think it's similar to the whole aviation user fees discussion. For pilots it's a disaster, for the average citizen you'll get 'what the hell is a user fee and who cares'. I think that's one of the reasons that the loss of thousands of jobs doesn't really phase average Americans, and that Obama can get away with it. It's sad though, I really feel like we're going totally backwards instead of forwards. We put men into space, then men on the moon, participate in an international space station, and now we axe the shuttle program with nothing in it's footsteps, doesn't make any sense to me.

Agreed 100%. People don't care much because of what you described, and as far as advancement
it doesn't make sense to me either.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

Yes, ADS-B will reduce delays and increase capacity. But is it really a nav system?

I guess you could call it that, since it requires WAAS in order to install in.

On a side note, the space shuttles were built for 100 flights each, they havent event completed 50 yet.

They need a new shuttle with new technology. Not a rocket, we went from landing in the water, to landing on a runway. Now they want to go backwards..??? The airplanes carrying thousands of people everyday have more advanced technology..the shuttle still uses old heavy relays.

Rant off.

Sure, they were built for 100 flights each. The flights were also supposed to cost way way less than they do now. The current per pound of payload to space cost is 2/3rds more than what was estimated in 1970. The whole premise of the system was launching a shuttle every week, in order to spread the development costs. It takes roughly 3/4 of a million man hours to process a vehicle for launch. Sit down and do the math on how many people you would need to keep that launch schedule up, and the number of vehicles needed.

Basically, a single launch costs us 1.3 Billion dollars. Sure, the Space Shuttle is cool, but is it 1.3 billion per launch cool, I don't think so. Do we really need something the size of a DC-9 to take 7 people to space? No, we don't. Put them in a capsule, that is cheaper, and on top of a basic rocket, that is cheaper than the whole booster/ET/SSME combo. Heck, we've been through 4 entire systems of launch vehicles for humans, while the Russians continue to use the same basic core to launch people that launched Sputnik in 1957.

SpaceX has the solution, especially after seeing their Falcon 9 perform so well this summer. Hopefully things keep rolling well over there, and then maybe we can get people back up on our own rockets soon.

 

[Turbine]

I guess you could call it that, since it requires WAAS in order to install in.



Sure, they were built for 100 flights each. The flights were also supposed to cost way way less than they do now. The current per pound of payload to space cost is 2/3rds more than what was estimated in 1970. The whole premise of the system was launching a shuttle every week, in order to spread the development costs. It takes roughly 3/4 of a million man hours to process a vehicle for launch. Sit down and do the math on how many people you would need to keep that launch schedule up, and the number of vehicles needed.

Basically, a single launch costs us 1.3 Billion dollars. Sure, the Space Shuttle is cool, but is it 1.3 billion per launch cool, I don't think so. Do we really need something the size of a DC-9 to take 7 people to space? No, we don't. Put them in a capsule, that is cheaper, and on top of a basic rocket, that is cheaper than the whole booster/ET/SSME combo. Heck, we've been through 4 entire systems of launch vehicles for humans, while the Russians continue to use the same basic core to launch people that launched Sputnik in 1957.

SpaceX has the solution, especially after seeing their Falcon 9 perform so well this summer. Hopefully things keep rolling well over there, and then maybe we can get people back up on our own rockets soon.

The Russians could not have built the space station. The shuttle has heavy lift capacity, and a boom style arm to maneuver pieces. The shuttle lands on a runway where the astronauts can walk off on their own and not be pulled from a hole the size of a sewage drain. 1.3 Billion is peanuts considering the ridiculous amounts of money spent on war, stimulus money, and healthcare reform.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

They built Mir.

 

[Hacker15e]

There's a reason that less than 1% of the population controls more than 90% of all the capital, and that's not good for the rest of the 99%.

State your source for this one -- all the sources I saw when I recently looked in one of my MBA classes said that the top 1% in the United States controlled just under 50% of the overall wealth. That was of 2008, and had been pretty steady for at least the previous two decades.

Has there been a shift of 40% of the nation's wealth in the last two years?

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

The Russians could not have built the space station. The shuttle has heavy lift capacity, and a boom style arm to maneuver pieces. The shuttle lands on a runway where the astronauts can walk off on their own and not be pulled from a hole the size of a sewage drain. 1.3 Billion is peanuts considering the ridiculous amounts of money spent on war, stimulus money, and healthcare reform.

Yup, the Soviets/Russians have heavy lift capability too. Its called Proton, and its what ISS was launched on. We also have much better heavy lift capability than the STS, being the Delta & Atlas family of vehicles, and hopefully soon we'll have the Falcon 9 Heavy to go along with that. I'd rather see that 1.3 billion dollars spread across multiple flights than one flight. The pride of having 7 people "walk" off a space shuttle isn't worth it, when you could put them up in a capsule for way less money, and do it more often.

They built Mir.

Yup, and 6 other stations too. They have way more experience than us in station operations than we do.

 

[greaper007]

State your source for this one -- all the sources I saw when I recently looked in one of my MBA classes said that the top 1% in the United States controlled just under 50% of the overall wealth. That was of 2008, and had been pretty steady for at least the previous two decades.

Has there been a shift of 40% of the nation's wealth in the last two years?

I'm looking, the statistic popped out in my head from somewhere and I admit that I played fast and loose with that one. I also blame a 2 year old watching Barney in the background. But I digress.

1% controlling 50% is still incredibly unbalanced.

 

[jtrain609]

I'm looking, the statistic popped out in my head from somewhere and I admit that I played fast and loose with that one. I also blame a 2 year old watching Barney in the background. But I digress.

1% controlling 50% is still incredibly unbalanced.

We almost had a socialist revolution in the 20's because people thought the balance of wealth had grown to be too out of whack.

At that point 1% of the population controlled 15% of the wealth.

Viva le revolution.

 

[meritflyer]

At that point 1% of the population controlled 15% of the wealth.

Then, get off your duff and take part rather than sit on JC all day and editorialize.

Just a wild idea.

 

[Turbine]

Strongly disagree, but everyone has their opinion.

Mir doesn't even compare to the ISS.

War - 300 million a day = 2billion/week = 8billion/month = 96billion/yr

1.3billion = pocket change

The cost of operating a heavy lift rocket, and a crew capsule using two separate rockets is probably close to the cost of operating the shuttle, which accomplishes both.

In any case it doesn't matter whether they use rockets or not, the fact is they are doing away with it, and they don't have anything else.

Why would i sell my car if i didn't have another one to use?

Yup, the Soviets/Russians have heavy lift capability too. Its called Proton, and its what ISS was launched on. We also have much better heavy lift capability than the STS, being the Delta & Atlas family of vehicles, and hopefully soon we'll have the Falcon 9 Heavy to go along with that. I'd rather see that 1.3 billion dollars spread across multiple flights than one flight. The pride of having 7 people "walk" off a space shuttle isn't worth it, when you could put them up in a capsule for way less money, and do it more often.



Yup, and 6 other stations too. They have way more experience than us in station operations than we do.