Comair "big" announcement

Screaming_Emu said:
Of course they are. ASA has a lot to gain through this merger. But you're basically asking Xjet guys to take a concession because their management is losing money.

You're calling for us to all come together and get an industry leading contract. But what is the point of a contract if certain parts can be tossed aside and ignored for the benefit of the company?
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Exactly!!! I'm sure the XJET guys sacrificed for their successorship clause in their contract, and I hope they either get paid back for it, or it is enforced.

To the XJET guys, pay no attention to whatever trip7 says. No one know where the F he gets his crap from. Unless he is back to performing afternoon duties on his knees in the GO, then he knows no more than the avg line guy. All he does is post baseless rumors and every once in a while a blind squirrel finds a nut.
 
Trip7 said:
It's now a take it or leave it offer. Looks like there is ZERO chance of one list. Didn't hurt to try. However it will hurt bigtime if XJT keeps trying. One list would create labor strife because SKW has a 2000+ pilot group that for the most part, wants absolutely nothing to do with a union.
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Please, please, please do your research. The NMB rules don't agree with your company's wishes.

According to the NMB Office of Legal Affairs, any organization or INDIVIDUAL can file a petition for a ruling of a single transportation system.

Here are some indicators of a single transportation system, for representation purposes (Emphasis is added by me):
19.501 Factors Indicating a Single Transportation System

The following are some indicia of a single transportation system:
(1) published combined schedules or combined routes;
(2) standardized uniforms;
(3) common marketing, markings or insignia;
(4) integrated essential operations such as
scheduling or dispatching;
(5) centralized labor and personnel operations;
(6) combined or common management, corporate officers, and board of directors;
(7) combined workforce; and,
(8) common or overlapping ownership.
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Source - Page 27
...And yes, this applies even if the ownership group doesn't intend to merge certificates.

Ask me how I know these things.
 
Baronman said:
No kidding. You would thing ASAers would be happy that this merger could be the catalyst necessary to merge all three. Fortunately it's something included in the XJT pilot contract. It wasn't in ASA's previous contract thus landing you in a predicament where your sister company (competitor) is non-union. Sure, everyone has played fairly nicely thus far, but the two haven't been together that long.
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A number of us are, but you're right - it's not in our current contract - such that it's not our fight.

As much as we are on the side lines looking (re: those of us who actually support this union) onto the playing field of XJT vs. SkyWest Inc., we unfortunately can not really have a position in what it is the XJT MEC wishes to do.

Just don't cast such stones, be specific...the "our hand is out" crowd is very small.
 
surreal1221 said:
As much as we are on the side lines looking (re: those of us who actually support this union) onto the playing field of XJT vs. SkyWest Inc., we unfortunately can not really have a position in what it is the XJT MEC wishes to do.
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They can if they all band together to file the NMB determination! Even individuals can file for it....
 
Polar742 said:
Please, please, please do your research. The NMB rules don't agree with your company's wishes.

According to the NMB Office of Legal Affairs, any organization or INDIVIDUAL can file a petition for a ruling of a single transportation system.

Here are some indicators of a single transportation system, for representation purposes (Emphasis is added by me):


Source - Page 27
...And yes, this applies even if the ownership group doesn't intend to merge certificates.

Ask me how I know these things.
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If XJT does not agree the entire transaction will be cancelled. So there will be no need to file a petition due to XJT not being a part of INC at all.

As far a the position of the ASA MEC as commented on earlier, MEC members are saying off the record that they think XJT is crazy for going for one list.
 
Trip7 said:
If XJT does not agree the entire transaction will be cancelled. So there will be no need to file a petition due to XJT not being a part of INC at all.

As far a the position of the ASA MEC as commented on earlier, MEC members are saying off the record that they think XJT is crazy for going for one list.
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Trip7 said:
No they can't, the transaction has not been finalized....
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It would be very difficult to prove the same ownership group unless XJT is owned by SkyWest.

I left out the "after the transaction is complete" since I didn't think it was necessary....
 
I'm done with prognosticating Comair's future.:dunno: It makes for good banter at work, but I'll just continue to show up for work and as long my badge gets me in the door, and I get paid every other week. Of course I'm looking for the closest emergency exit!;)
 
H46Bubba said:
I'm done with prognosticating Comair's future.:dunno: It makes for good banter at work, but I'll just continue to show up for work and as long my badge gets me in the door, and I get paid every other week. Of course I'm looking for the closest emergency exit!;)
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I'll 2nd this motion.

Bubba are you going to the DTW also?
 
H46Bubba said:
I'm done with prognosticating Comair's future.:dunno: It makes for good banter at work, but I'll just continue to show up for work and as long my badge gets me in the door, and I get paid every other week. Of course I'm looking for the closest emergency exit!;)
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Good luck.

Except some Maintenance related openings at Acey soon, or more importantly - more openings.
 
Trip7 said:
If XJT does not agree the entire transaction will be cancelled...
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Trip...

On the Skywest conference call, JA stated that they could see profits of 35 to 50 million per year as a result of this transaction. They also mentioned a new 10 year deal with CAL. That is a minimum of $350,000,000 over a ten year period.

Think about that for just a minute or two.

To me, and many others... they already showed their cards. Their hand has been played. Our scope is tight. IMHO... They will not back out of the deal over "One-List" and lose a potential half a billion dollars and a cornering of the Regional market, for a paltry $30 million dollar investment.

This is the first week of negotiations... only one meeting has transpired and one offer is on the table. It's not the one that complies with our contract, so it's simply not acceptable.

Why... oh why... would we simply give in after not even trying? JA has hundreds of millions to lose in this battle. Follow the money and I think you'll understand.

Trip7 said:
As far a the position of the ASA MEC as commented on earlier, MEC members are saying off the record that they think XJT is crazy for going for one list.
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Not the ones talking to me... or to our union.

Trip, if you guys want an industry leading contract in the future... regardless of whether or not we merge... you have to show much more backbone than what you are showing here. Emotions run high in negotiations... fear of the unknown runs rampant and is perpetuated by management. It's a tactic, pure and simple.

To fight for what is right... isn't always the "popular" thing to do, but it is... for lack of a better word... the "right" thing to do.

If they pull out... so be it. Being independent, without fear of the whipsaw... and having the ability to freely seek new work, contracts, and opportunities is certainly not a bad thing.

Bob
 
All SkyWest needs to do is look at Republic. Three (four? five?) certificates, one seniority list.

We don't need to combine ASA and XJT, then fight for scope protections. XJT already has the scope protections. Why fight for something we already have?

Personally, I say one list or close the doors. If SkyWest wants to play hardball, fine. I'll choose integrity and not being a sellout over keeping this regional job. At some point, pilots need to say, "enough is enough." This is our chance. This is an opportunity for XJT, ASA and SkyWest pilots to say, "we aren't going to be pitted against one another."

Jerry Atkin is really shooting himself in the foot if he doesn't play ball with XJT. He's going to let his ego override his brain.
 
Captain_Bob said:
Do you really think JA is just going to drop the deal because of one clause in our contract??
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In a word, yes. I can't believe I'm saying this, but.........I agree with Trip7. I know, it sounds crazy, but this time he seems to be actually thinking things through instead of just carrying the usual management kool-aid. Atkin is looking at a very difficult situation. Either he accepts a three-way integration, forcing his non-union pilots into a union against their will, creating a massive morale problem that threatens his airline's performance, which also threatens his long-term capacity purchase agreements, or he backs out of the deal and loses the considerable synergies. With those options, I think he would be far more likely to go with option number two. The risks associated with the first option far outweigh the benefits of going forward with the transaction.

Now, does that mean that a three-way integration can never happen? Not at all. The SkyWest pilots will soon find themselves as the minority pilot group at SkyWest Inc., and they will no longer be the favored sons. Atkin will be making tons of money from his new combined ASA/XJT operation, and the SkyWest pilots will see that SkyWest Inc. works just fine with a union operation of twice as many pilots. They will quickly start to see the benefits of representation and realize that the management rhetoric of so many years against unions has been nothing but bunk. At that point, a successful ALPA drive at SkyWest would be far more likely, and then Atkin loses his benefit of keeping them separate and will almost certainly merge the lists on his own accord.

With that said, this is a decision that the XJT pilots need to make on their own. Weigh the pros and cons and make the right decision. Just do so with all of the facts in mind, including the risks. It might not be as easy a decision as you first think.

Polar742 said:
They can if they all band together to file the NMB determination! Even individuals can file for it....
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Based on what I know of the SkyWest/ASA operation, and based on past NMB rulings, I think it's unlikely that the pilots would be successful in a single carrier petition. There just isn't enough operational integration.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Based on what I know of the SkyWest/ASA operation, and based on past NMB rulings, I think it's unlikely that the pilots would be successful in a single carrier petition. There just isn't enough operational integration.
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Yeah, I guess that's right.

I really only know one determination quite well. It was interesting how important the holding company's management structure was in that one though.

Maybe you should read that one and see what you think.

I'd say that if this transaction goes through, and unless there are 3 distinct HQs, BoDs and C-Suites, then some folks best get to studying recent rulings.

There was a determination about 2 years ago that ALPA wasn't too interested in.
 
My understanding is that Inc. intends to keep everything completely separate, with ASA/XJT being operated out of Atlanta, and SkyWest being operated out in Utah. Separate SOCs, separate management structures, separate HQs, etc.
 
Read through this thread (albeit not very studiously), but what is this scope protections everyone keeps talking about in respect to ExpressJet?
 
The XJT pilots have what's called a "holding company side letter." The side letter is basically intended to require management to merge any carrier that the holding company purchases or is acquired by. So, the idea is that the side letter requires SkyWest Inc. to merge all three carriers, not just ASA and XJT. I'm sure that SkyWest would argue that they have skirted the requirements of the letter, though, because they've created a company within a holding company within a holding company. It's all very convoluted, but such is the length that a union-buster like Jerry Atkin will go to to keep his non-union lemmings.
 
I am still aghast that Omar wants to staple the ASA/XJT guys...

and no answer to "please tell me your kidding".

Not going to be buying any seatbuddy's, ever... that's for sure.
 
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