Fifi flies again!

[trafficinsight]

FWIW, I don't like the unlimited class of air racing because I hate seeing P-51s, F8Fs, F4Us and Sea Fury's with clipped wings, flush canopies, etc, looking like they just came out of a south side chop shop, just with a nice paintjob.

The radically modified ones come from an era where those airframes were still fairly common. I don't think you'd find too many people doing that kind of thing now. A couple are being returned to standard configuration. Some were never really standard to begin with.

I like the sport class, I think it holds the best chance for continuing the sport of air racing, not that there's much left of it, but I just can't seem to get as excited about a twin turbocharged continental or lycoming flat six or whatever as a 4000 horsepower R-3350.

I kind of think that Super Sport could be the future of unlimited... RARA just needs to build that instead of focusing on the unlimiteds all the time.

 

[MikeD]

The radically modified ones come from an era where those airframes were still fairly common. I don't think you'd find too many people doing that kind of thing now. A couple are being returned to standard configuration. Some were never really standard to begin with.

I like the sport class, I think it holds the best chance for continuing the sport of air racing, not that there's much left of it, but I just can't seem to get as excited about a twin turbocharged continental or lycoming flat six or whatever as a 4000 horsepower R-3350.

I kind of think that Super Sport could be the future of unlimited... RARA just needs to build that instead of focusing on the unlimiteds all the time.

I've gone to Reno a number of times from the 1970s onward, and was at the first Phoenix 500 and witnessed when Kevin Eldridge bailed out of the Corsair. While its tragic when someone perishes, and a relief when someone bails out and survives; it's equally tragic to see the once-proud and rare aircraft get destroyed.

[yt]Bc3InHWB1es[/yt]

 

[trafficinsight]

I've gone to Reno a number of times from the 1970s onward, and was at the first Phoenix 500 and witnessed when Kevin Eldridge bailed out of the Corsair. While its tragic when someone perishes, and a relief when someone bails out and survives; it's equally tragic to see the once-proud and rare aircraft get destroyed.

[yt]Bc3InHWB1es[/yt]

I'm not arguing with you, I'm just saying that the philosophy now is different than it was then.

 

[MikeD]

I'm not arguing with you, I'm just saying that the philosophy now is different than it was then.

Oh no, no argument here either. And agree about the philosophy difference. It's more just one of those sad things to see. And fully agree it was more prominent back in the day than it is now.

 

[trafficinsight]

Oh no, no argument here either. And agree about the philosophy difference. It's more just one of those sad things to see. And fully agree it was more prominent back in the day than it is now.

Ya know now that I'm thinking about it... It should be mentioned too that some of the airframes would have been beer cans or corrosion dust a long time ago if it hadn't been for air racers buying them up to modify, the Super Corsair and Rare Bear are two that come to mind.

The question is if you're going to "retire" them because they're so rare... now what do you do with them... they have more history in air racing than they ever did in combat... and how do you honor the memory of the guys that basically carried the torch of air racing so that we are where we are today?

 

[MikeD]

Ya know now that I'm thinking about it... It should be mentioned too that some of the airframes would have been beer cans or corrosion dust a long time ago if it hadn't been for air racers buying them up to modify, the Super Corsair and Rare Bear are two that come to mind.

The question is if you're going to "retire" them because they're so rare... now what do you do with them... they have more history in air racing than they ever did in combat... and how do you honor the memory of the guys that basically carried the torch of air racing so that we are where we are today?

It's a double-edged sword. Most of these airframes languishing in places like Kingman, AZ post-war did become beer cans. Rescued from that, they got chopped up to become air racers. Too, this was before any kind of "warbird" movement, where these types of planes were seen to have no utility or profit use in the civilian world, and hence had little value as the classic airframe they are. It wasn't until the mid '70s that a warbird movement began to pickup good steam, but there wasn't much public appreciation, especially after numerous high-profile accidents like the Farrell's Ice Cream Parlor in Sacramento in 1972. There were early here-and-there projects and collectors, but I don't think it went full ahead until the mid '70.

 

[WacoFan]

I'm not sure what it would take for air racing to be relevant again. The "Golden Age of Air Racing" was unique because you had home-grown designs and guts taking on the fastest pursuit ships of the military - and winning against them consistently. The fastest speeds being flown were being accomplished at the air races, and the aeronautical knowledge learned was directly used to make civilian and military ships better. Today, and since WW2, it has not had the scientific purpose or breakthroughs, it's just a bunch of cool-sounding airplanes flying fast in a circle. The absolute speed records, coupled with the Great Depression and the need for hero's made air racing amazingly popular. To me, the Sport Class represents what air racing should be - homebuilt designs using existing technology, or creating new technology, to greater effect. The ultimate would be for a sport-class airplane to be able to be a chopped up unlimited - that is the "last frontier" of air racing in my view. Bob Pond tried it, and with the amazing speeds of the Nemisis and Thunder Mustang I'm sure that at some point that will happen. I hope so at least.

 

[Hacker15e]

when Kevin Eldridge bailed out of the Corsair. While its tragic when someone perishes, and a relief when someone bails out and survives; it's equally tragic to see the once-proud and rare aircraft get destroyed.

Sort of a leading statement when said like this -- like many highly modified racers, the Super Corsair was never a complete 'warbird' to begin with that was 'destroyed' by being converted into a racer.

It was built up of derelict parts into the racer; parts that weren't part of flyable airframes at that time anyhow.

The same can be said for many of the other highly modified racers of the post-1980 era: Stiletto, Dago Red, Strega, Precious Metal (N6WD), Miss Ashley II, etc, were all wrecks or just spare parts before they became racers.

My counter-assertion is that air racing has actually contributed to the salvaging/preservation of more airframes than it has cost.

What air racing HAS destroyed forever is Merlin engines and parts, none of which are replaceable/rebuildable as most airframes are.

 

[Hacker15e]

To me, the Sport Class represents what air racing should be - homebuilt designs using existing technology, or creating new technology, to greater effect. The ultimate would be for a sport-class airplane to be able to be a chopped up unlimited - that is the "last frontier" of air racing in my view. Bob Pond tried it, and with the amazing speeds of the Nemisis and Thunder Mustang I'm sure that at some point that will happen. I hope so at least.

Agreed completely.

If they'd drop the "kit" requirement portion of the rules it would make them the de-facto unlimited class, and would be pretty exciting to watch.

 

[mshunter]

Agreed completely.

If they'd drop the "kit" requirement portion of the rules it would make them the de-facto unlimited class, and would be pretty exciting to watch.

Add one to the agreed. Unless your rich, have a huge name built for yourself, or can get huge backing to actually produce kits, there is no way for a garage built airplane to make it at reno in the sport class. And the 4500lbs caveat of the unlimited makes building an unlimited a hefty monetary obligation as well, considering the power plant required to be competitive.

 

[trafficinsight]

Are you listening RARA?

 

[WacoFan]

Agreed completely.

If they'd drop the "kit" requirement portion of the rules it would make them the de-facto unlimited class, and would be pretty exciting to watch.

Add one to the agreed. Unless your rich, have a huge name built for yourself, or can get huge backing to actually produce kits, there is no way for a garage built airplane to make it at reno in the sport class. And the 4500lbs caveat of the unlimited makes building an unlimited a hefty monetary obligation as well, considering the power plant required to be competitive.

Are you listening RARA?

So it is up to us plus MikeD and Ctab - we will design and build an updated CR-3 except built around one of those commie motors they put on the Model 12 Pitts. It would have to be scaled up some to accomodate the bigger motor and prop...but that's what we must do.

 

[juan valdez]

The military still has the same problem today. It takes 5-10 guys to do what one experianced A&P can handle by himself. Not a knock on military mechs, (I was one) but simply a factor of experiance.

unless you work at a federal site.
I'd rather have those 10 non experienced fresh out of boot camp/mct mechs than any 10 federal workers out here.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

So it is up to us plus MikeD and Ctab - we will design and build an updated CR-3 except built around one of those commie motors they put on the Model 12 Pitts. It would have to be scaled up some to accomodate the bigger motor and prop...but that's what we must do.

Its a shame the IO-720 is too big to be legal for the Sport Class. I can't imagine the power you could get out of one of those, if you tuned and machined the thing like they do on the O-200's in the F1 class.

 

[mshunter]

Its a shame the IO-720 is too big to be legal for the Sport Class. I can't imagine the power you could get out of one of those, if you tuned and machined the thing like they do on the O-200's in the F1 class.

I am preaty sure the F-1 class is "stock" engines. Granted I'm sure everything is balanced/blueprinted. But the majority of the engine is completely stock.

Weights and sizes of every major engine part must be within stock limits. The cam profile and carburetion are strictly controlled.

From http://www.airrace.org/classF1.php


It reminds me of the SCORE 1/2 1600 cars. Has to be 1600cc, single port heads, 34mm Solex PICT-1 carb IIRC. The best you could get out of an engine like that, no matter what you did was about 45-50hp.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

I am preaty sure the F-1 class is "stock" engines. Granted I'm sure everything is balanced/blueprinted. But the majority of the engine is completely stock.

That may be, but they run them at 4000RPMs +, do they not? Even if that's all you did to an IO-720, what kind of power would it make?

 

[WacoFan]

Its a shame the IO-720 is too big to be legal for the Sport Class. I can't imagine the power you could get out of one of those, if you tuned and machined the thing like they do on the O-200's in the F1 class.

Oh...I'm sorry man. I should have specified. Any powerplants need to be either Radial, V-12, or Inline. Horizontally opposed is just ghey and doesn't sound nearly as cool. Not only do we have to be fast, we also have to sound cool too. That's part of it.

 

[mshunter]

That may be, but they run them at 4000RPMs +, do they not? Even if that's all you did to an IO-720, what kind of power would it make?

I could only imagine. But yeah, they do run the crud out of them. Just goes to show the difference between a factory built, and a well built engine.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

I could only imagine. But yeah, they do run the crud out of them. Just goes to show the difference between a factory built, and a well built engine.

I could only imagine the price tag of a well built IO-720. Heck, a new one from the factory is right at $100,000.

 

[mshunter]

I could only imagine the price tag of a well built IO-720. Heck, a new one from the factory is right at $100,000.

Thats why you buy a run out one, and take it to a reputiable machine shop that doesn't necessarily specalize in airplane engines. I'm not knocking airplane machine shops, but they usually won't touch am emgine that has been modified. But, take it to a good auto machine shop, and have everything balanced. Then get some good cyls., and call up crane with some flow numbers, and rpm expectations and have them grind you a cam. Make sure you use roller lifters, and then do some roller lifters, etc. I bet you could get 1000 reliable turbo'ed horsepower out of one.

Or you could just go to TRACE and meet Waco's needs. It may not be a v-12, but it's still a v motor. Put a turbo on that thing, or maybey a few, and see what you get.

http://www.traceengines.com/