Commercial Pilot Career is a sinking ship.

Socal321 said:
I don't know what you mean by glamor.
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Once you get to the big show, then you will know. As you walk the terminal, everyone gives you high 5's and cheers you on. As you walk down the jetbridge, customers and flight attendants kneel as if you were the pope or another royal. Your airplane has so many buttons, not even you know what they all do, but it looks like something out of Star Trek.

Well that, or you could be flying a DHC-6 121... and that ain't too glamorous! Most of the customers "suck their teeth" at you. There is no jetbridge and you sweat a lot in 100 heat. Your airplane has around 3 buttons. Man I need to get to the big show too!

/sarcasm off :)
 
Callador said:
Once you get to the big show, then you will know. As you walk the terminal, everyone gives you high 5's and cheers you on. As you walk down the jetbridge, customers and flight attendants kneel as if you were the pope or another royal. Your airplane has so many buttons, not even you know what they all do, but it looks like something out of Star Trek.

Well that, or you could be flying a DHC-6 121... and that ain't too glamorous! Most of the customers "suck their teeth" at you. There is no jetbridge and you sweat a lot in 100 heat. Your airplane has around 3 buttons. Man I need to get to the big show too!

/sarcasm off :)
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Yea and regional pilots come and ask for your autograph...
 
It's too bad the discussion of "Commercial Pilot Careers" being in a downward trend has turned into another "121 vs. The World" rehash. Granted, part of the problem was seaav8or's use of 121 statistics to make a statement about pilot jobs as a whole, but I think a new direction of inquiry may be in order.

If I may suggest a thread redirect:

Many corporate flight departments are desperate to "trim the fat" and eliminate or degrade well-paid pilot positions. Small FBOs and "mom and pop" freight operations have been shutting their doors across the country as the economic downturn has continued. Almost all flying jobs related to niche tourism (island flying, tours, et al) have been HAMMERED recently by their prospective clients' lack of disposable income. The precipitous decline of desirable 121 jobs, while not directly affecting these other positions, has created tens of thousands of highly skilled and qualified pilots who must now seek employment elsewhere, and who must now compete with the rest of you for a wide selection of flying positions.

These factors have put ENORMOUS downward pressure on pilot compensation at all levels. If you are happily employed in a position that has been thus far unaffected by the whole mess, I offer my congratulations, but be careful that your attitude doesn't echo that of the 121 pilot who was on top of the world fifteen years ago. The macroeconomic factors conspiring to degrade pilot quality of life are clear. As in many professions, the skills we spend a lifetime building tend to transfer from job to job quite easily. Unlike many professions, the compensation we can expect to receive for those skills does not.
 
Firebird2XC said:
Wait- if this career is a sinking ship... and I ride it all the way to the end..

... does that mean eventually my career will just go down on me?

Unexpected bonus! :D
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Hey, you're the Captain, you're supposed to go down with the sinking ship!!
 
NJA_Capt said:
Did you just make up these numbers yourself???

NetJets (US only) still employs 2700+ after the furlough. All the other frax make up approx 1200 active pilots.



There are over 12,000 corporate JETS registered in the US. Given that most require two pilots, and some companies use more, you estimate is significantly inaccurate.


That is the main misconception. The airlines are NOT the biggest percentage. As I pointed out above, even using corporate jets alone, non airline jobs become a much smaller percentage. Most corp jobs have several crews per plane and many corp jobs are running piston equip, turbo props and helicopters. Sorry, but airline jobs are more than likely, the minority.

There are 12000+ Corp jets in the US
There are 8000+ turboprops in the US
Delta operates 789 aircraft
American operates 612 aircraft
US Air operates 345 aircraft
NetJets operates 846 aircraft
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I admit my numbers were made up. I posted them as a sort of thought experiment. Your 12,000 number is, IMO way inflated though. According to my calculations, there are 854 airports in the US that are denoted as either 'medium' or 'large'. Doing the math, it comes out to 14 private jets per large or medium sized airport. Also, there are just a little over 14,000 airports private use and public use of any size in the US. That would mean there is almost one jet for every registered airfield in the US. Doesn't seem likely. I'd love to see actual (not just estimated) numbers though.
 
TwilightFan91 said:
I admit my numbers were made up. I posted them as a sort of thought experiment. Your 12,000 number is, IMO way inflated though. According to my calculations, there are 854 airports in the US that are denoted as either 'medium' or 'large'. Doing the math, it comes out to 14 private jets per large or medium sized airport. Also, there are just a little over 14,000 airports private use and public use of any size in the US. That would mean there is almost one jet for every registered airfield in the US. Doesn't seem likely. I'd love to see actual (not just estimated) numbers though.
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I'm pretty certain NJACapt's 12,000 number comes from the NBAA so I'm guessing it isn't inflated.

14 jets per medium/large (what ever that means) airport is hardly over rated. Figure some places have 50 or 60 parked on the ramp which means a whole bunch of other places only need 1 or 2 for your "average" to work out.
 
BobDDuck said:
I'm pretty certain NJACapt's 12,000 number comes from the NBAA so I'm guessing it isn't inflated.

14 jets per medium/large (what ever that means) airport is hardly over rated. Figure some places have 50 or 60 parked on the ramp which means a whole bunch of other places only need 1 or 2 for your "average" to work out.
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my perception comes from mainly two places:

1. most pilots I know went the airline route. On this here forum, it seems most people are airline pilots rather than other aviation professions.
2. I hear "delta", "american", "cactus", etc. over the radio way more than I hear "citation", or "king air".

based on this, it seems to me that the airlines are the biggest aviation job sector...
 
TwilightFan91 said:
I admit my numbers were made up. I posted them as a sort of thought experiment. Your 12,000 number is, IMO way inflated though. According to my calculations, there are 854 airports in the US that are denoted as either 'medium' or 'large'. Doing the math, it comes out to 14 private jets per large or medium sized airport. Also, there are just a little over 14,000 airports private use and public use of any size in the US. That would mean there is almost one jet for every registered airfield in the US. Doesn't seem likely. I'd love to see actual (not just estimated) numbers though.
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There are actually closer to 20,000 airports in the US, not 14,000. Of those, the majority are private use, helicopters, gliders, etc. There are approx 5000 civil/public use airports.

According to the FAA's 2009 data (years 2006/2007) there were 10,400 business jets and 9,500 turboprops in the "active" GA inventory. I also have a list of 12000+ us jet registrations, some of which are not active as defined by the FAA. There are also almost 31,000 aircraft dedicated to business and corporate flying in general. Almost double the aggregate numbers of Air Carrier aircraft.
http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/aba/admin_factbook/media/200908.pdf

TwilightFan91 said:
my perception comes from mainly two places:

1. most pilots I know went the airline route. On this here forum, it seems most people are airline pilots rather than other aviation professions.
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TwilightFan91 said:
2. I hear "delta", "american", "cactus", etc. over the radio way more than I hear "citation", or "king air".

based on this, it seems to me that the airlines are the biggest aviation job sector...
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Using your logic, if I monitor the tower frequency at DAL, that must mean that SWA is the only airline in the US? You hear the airlines more because they have a higher frequency of use. They are also congregated around the 50 busiest airports, whereas corp jets are utilizing all 5000+

Airliners get 40-100,000 hours of use in a lifetime. A corporate jet is generally less than 10-15,000.
What you here on the radio depends on your location. Listening to TEB tower, you would say that airliners don't exist.
 
TwilightFan91 said:
my perception comes from mainly two places:

1. most pilots I know went the airline route. On this here forum, it seems most people are airline pilots rather than other aviation professions.
2. I hear "delta", "american", "cactus", etc. over the radio way more than I hear "citation", or "king air".

based on this, it seems to me that the airlines are the biggest aviation job sector...
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You really need to do your homework on this subject.

1. I would disagree that most people on this forum who fly for a living are airline pilots, yes, there are quite a few of them on here but the majority? I doubt it.

2. Many, many, many, aviation professionals use a tail number as a call sign as opposed to something like "Delta" or "Cactus". You probably hear more aviation professionals on the radio than you realise because of this.
 
sr22driver said:
If anyone EVER hears of me wanting to go to an airline, PLEASE shoot me in the back of the head. Print this out and use as a permission slip.
My aviation goal is to fly in the islands and wear flip flops, cutoffs and a wife beater. Give me one of these and I will live happily ever friggin after!
79483233.jpg
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What's a wife beater?


That's a sweet looking a.c. btw.
 
TwilightFan91 said:
my perception comes from mainly two places:

1. most pilots I know went the airline route. On this here forum, it seems most people are airline pilots rather than other aviation professions.
2. I hear "delta", "american", "cactus", etc. over the radio way more than I hear "citation", or "king air".

based on this, it seems to me that the airlines are the biggest aviation job sector...
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I think this forum has a mixture of pilots from a lot of different parts of the industry. A lot of them might be 121 or 135, but even in a particular rulset there are various kinds of operations. I fly for a 121, but it is nothing like any other 121 out there. I also think there are less people flying for the majors here than regionals or other freight jobs. Again, just because "you" only know pilots that went to the big show, doesn't mean there are other guys out there doing different things.

The second point is pretty illogical, but I think you get that by now. It really depends what airport you go into. Most of the airports I fly into have more GA or 135 traffic than any large 121's. And even if I go to the largest airport in the area SJU, flying over it will reveal lots of smaller business and freight planes.
 
You mean he "Don Ed Hardy" variety that the folks with the extra-long pointy shoes, girl jeans and "Icy Hott Stunna" sunglasses wear? :)
 
bksslc said:
You really need to do your homework on this subject.

1. I would disagree that most people on this forum who fly for a living are airline pilots, yes, there are quite a few of them on here but the majority? I doubt it.
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I guess the only way to find out is for someone to setup a poll.
 
chuckar101 said:
Ok so the numbers are way off and you missing some major industries. To name a few, aerial photography, spray planes, skydive pilots, fire flying, etc. You just have to find them.
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there are about 3000 ag pilots in the US.

There are only about 90 SEAT (single engine air tanker) pilot jobs in the US according to the government folks (i forget if it was BLM or Forest Service) that presented at the NAAA convention in Reno last December. I don't know how many of the big tanker jobs there are, but i doubt it makes much difference in the overall aviation industry.
 
I remember thinking the other day that this industry is evolving.

With UAVs on the rise in a number of areas, how long until they affect us?

I envision pipeline patrol and traffic watch becoming a product of something like this eventually. UAVs would be perfect for that sort of thing, given their endurance, etc.

Back in the day folks said the railroad would never outshine the horse. I'm fairly certain a few folks said that sort of thing about the automobile.
Even so, those things are still around in different roles.
Maybe the 'golden era' where pilots were adventurous folk heroes or celebrities is gone, but I foresee there being some sort of career application for pilots for a long, long time to come.
 
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