Commercial Pilot Career is a sinking ship.

cmill said:
But isnt that the ultimate goal of working for an airline, to make it to the shiny jets?
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For some it is, for some it isn't.

But no matter which way you feel, someone will always tell you you're wrong and they're right :)
 
We all look for our own decisions to be justified by others following in our footsteps. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery after all. Perhaps if others want the job you have then you can look at yourself in the mirror and tell yourself that you made good decisions and didn't squander the time, effort, and money it took to achieve that station in life.

At the end of the day its the time at home and quality of life that is important... not the number of engines, the maximum gross weight, the city pairs, the times zones crossed, or the number on the paycheck.

<shrug> Who knows if any of us made the right decisions at the end of the day? I know I question mine constantly.
 
TwilightFan91 said:
Yes, but if you were to add up all those non-airline jobs, it will come out to nowhere near 50,000.

Take all the 'small airplane' cargo and passenger outfits (Airnet, Ameriflight, and Cape Air and the like), that adds up to about 1,000 jobs max. Then add up all the fractional companies like NetJets, and FlexJet, thats another 1,000. All corporate gigs in the country add up to maybe 500. Plus all the 'career' flight instructor gigs which I'm guessing is about 200 or 300. Add all that up and you get about 3,000 jobs. Then double that number just in case my numbers are way off. That comes out to 6,000 jobs. Not even as many jobs as one of the large Airlines.
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I believe your numbers for non 121 jobs are off by quite a bit! I have just as many friends flying outside of the 121 world as I do in it. Even here on JC there is a fairly large amount of guys working professionally outside of the 121 arena.
 
If anyone EVER hears of me wanting to go to an airline, PLEASE shoot me in the back of the head. Print this out and use as a permission slip.
My aviation goal is to fly in the islands and wear flip flops, cutoffs and a wife beater. Give me one of these and I will live happily ever friggin after!
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It doesn't take a lot of research to see that this job market is in the crapper, all around.

Majors:

United: 1400 pilots on furlough
AA: 1900 pilots on furlough
Delta: Need 300 pilots in August
Continental: 150 pilots on furlough
US Air: Unknown number furloughed
FedEx: Not Hiring
UPS: Furloughing 300 pilots

Most of them haven't hired a captain since before 9/11.

Fractionals:

NetJets: 500 on furlough
FlexJet: Not hiring. Most jr captain hiring in 06
XOJet: 23 layoffs

Frieght Dawgs:

Airnet: Claim they are hiring, but they furloughed people last year
Ameriflight: Furloughs announced.
Amerijet: Not hiring, although they just hired a street capt in 09
Flight Express: Hiring

Regionals:

Eagle: Hiring, but have some FOs pushing double digit years in the right seat.
ASA: 140 pilots on furlough
XJet: Recalling some
Mesa: 400 on furlough
Comair: Recalling


So while there are some glimmers of hope, there isn't much movement at the top, causing a log jam at the bottom. With the regionals doing as much flying as they are, there will continue to be a drop in demand at the majors, which will make the log jam worse.
 
jynxyjoe said:
Find me a beech 1900 outfit that pays six figures, or even a king air job homeboy. I'd drop this dumb effing RJ in a heartbeart.
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Dont need even to go turbine, or even twin engine for that matter.

My co worker just got a job flying a 185 on floats monday through friday, 9-5 with a company provided truck and they're starting him at over 60k a year.

Not quite 100k, but not a bad living either.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
We all look for our own decisions to be justified by others following in our footsteps. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery after all. Perhaps if others want the job you have then you can look at yourself in the mirror and tell yourself that you made good decisions and didn't squander the time, effort, and money it took to achieve that station in life.

At the end of the day its the time at home and quality of life that is important... not the number of engines, the maximum gross weight, the city pairs, the times zones crossed, or the number on the paycheck.

<shrug> Who knows if any of us made the right decisions at the end of the day? I know I question mine constantly.
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:yeahthat: Well said.
 
cmill said:
Dont need even to go turbine, or even twin engine for that matter.

My co worker just got a job flying a 185 on floats monday through friday, 9-5 with a company provided truck and they're starting him at over 60k a year.

Not quite 100k, but not a bad living either.
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I made almost 50k as a Saab Capt, 4 on 3 off, sometimes a lot more, vacation and free travel. In Memphis you'll live pretty well on 50k even if they don't give you a truck.

I'm fine with 60k provided it's in the right area and I like the company.

jdlilfan said:
I am not sure what Menards pays their capts but I am sure after a few years it would be pretty good.
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I'm glad your so sure of it. The guys we had at my company who came from Menards weren't so sure, that's why they left, some still work here. One guy, Scott, quit and is back over there. Just a hell of a guy, had a great time studying for the Saab with him, and he did go back. I have no idea how well he is doing. I do know that sitting reserve with 2-3 kids at home wasn't worth his time and I completely understood and stand by his decision.
 
cmill said:
Dont need even to go turbine, or even twin engine for that matter.

My co worker just got a job flying a 185 on floats monday through friday, 9-5 with a company provided truck and they're starting him at over 60k a year.

Not quite 100k, but not a bad living either.
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Seriously, that would be a dream job for me!
 
jynxyjoe said:
I made almost 50k as a Saab Capt, 4 on 3 off, sometimes a lot more, vacation and free travel. In Memphis you'll live pretty well on 50k even if they don't give you a truck.

I'm fine with 60k provided it's in the right area and I like the company.
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BTW, i wasnt trying to start a this job is better than yours type of deal, was just trying to point out it is possible to make a respectable living flying outside of the airlines. Opportunities are out there, but you gotta look, and work your ass off.

Seriously, that would be a dream job for me!
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Oh yeah, you get free food on the rigs too, and they eat good
 
jynxyjoe said:
Find me a beech 1900 outfit that pays six figures, or even a king air job homeboy. I'd drop this dumb effing RJ in a heartbeart.
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I met a guy who was making over $100,000 to fly a Navajo for Frontier Flying Service before they got bought. I think he's at hageland now.

Captains at Alaska Central Express make $50/hr to start and fly around 1400hrs a year, and are home every night. NAC (jets) and Everts have excellent captain's pay as well, and FO pay is nothing to squint at.

They're out there. Additionally, money ain't everything, making $100,000 per year is useless to me if I'm to tired or stressed to enjoy it, or if I had to spend the last 10 years working crap jobs to get it. To me, there are basically five requirements:

1) I want to be paid a liveable wage from the get go, none of this "suffer for a year, then it'll get better," if I'm not going to make at least $40,000 (or a wage that is commiserate with a comfortable cost of living if the job is overseas) to start, there's no since in going.

2) Being home is nice. The more a job lets me be at home, the better.

3) I want to be treated with respect by my employer. As a corollary, that essentially means I want to work for someplace where the management and the pilots work together, not against one another.

4) The flying has to be interesting. Yes I know, all flying is essentially boring at some level, but the flying has to involve just a little more than 200' AP on, direct, enter, enter. I want to be able to occasionally see something interesting, or have a new challenge that's different from talking to the gate agent again.

5) Quality of life. The overall picture of the company has to indicate that my quality of life will be higher than that of the previous job.

I can't think of anything else that really matters.
 
cmill said:
Dont need even to go turbine, or even twin engine for that matter.

My co worker just got a job flying a 185 on floats monday through friday, 9-5 with a company provided truck and they're starting him at over 60k a year.

Not quite 100k, but not a bad living either.
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In a Caravan in PABE you can make over $60,000 per year, with free travel, benes and only work half of the year (2 weeks on 2 weeks off).

Caravan pilots at Bering Air can make over $100,000 per year. Their 1900 pilots make even more, though you have to live in Nome for Bering, and a lot of people wouldn't like that (Nome's pretty cool IMO).
 
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