Confidence building experiences *after* training

[jrh]

I don't have a specific situation to discuss in this thread, only general ideas I'd like to collect.

What are some methods for a pilot / new instructor to build their confidence, specifically *after* training ends?

I think we've all seen examples of this...the private pilot who's scared to take a cross country by themself, the instrument pilot scared to fly in the clouds, the instructor who is scared to teach landings or spins...you get the idea.

The toughest thing about these situations is that the person has already completed training. They *should* be able to do the things they're rated to do, yet they lack the confidence (or sometimes proficiency) to go out and do them.

I have a million ways to instill confidence in somebody who is going through training, but it's hard to "fix" a person when they don't have the time, money, and/or motivation to correct these types of deficiencies after they're rated.

To top it off, this is a problem I have a hard time relating to. I was fortunate to have excellent instruction all the way through my own training, coupled with my personality, in such a way that as soon as I got a rating, I was generally comfortable jumping head first in to whatever I was doing. I never needed to specifically work at building my own confidence.

So what do you all say? What experiences helped you build confidence throughout your training / careers? I'm especially interested in three areas:

...how this has worked with people whose personalities are naturally more shy, timid, etc. It seems like these types of people have a different learning style than people who are naturally bold, aggressive, outgoing, etc.

...how this has worked with female pilots. Nothing against women, it's just been my observation over the years that while women have the same technical skills as male pilots, they tend to be slower to gain confidence.

...how this has worked with new instructors. Since instructing is typically the last area of training, there aren't many opportunities to improve other than getting OTJ experience as a CFI. For instance, after the instrument rating, people can do timebuilding flights towards their commercial license, all while getting comfortable with their instrument ticket. Not so, for the CFI. It's trial by fire there.

Is there any way to do it, other than saying, "Suck it up, get out there, and go!"? Mentoring from other pilots/instructors? Observing other pilots/instructors? Books you've read? What do you think? What's worked for you?

 

[shdw]

First, unfortunately I can only give opinions as I was in the same shoes as you. I just jump. Weather is about the only thing that gets to me (not flying IFR/IMC, I love that) but avoiding entering IMC inadvertently on VFR flights.

...how this has worked with people whose personalities are naturally more shy, timid, etc. It seems like these types of people have a different learning style than people who are naturally bold, aggressive, outgoing, etc.

I believe this one rests far more on the primary (first 10 lessons) of instruction. I take primacy as an all or nothing in this case. If from day one the student is always looking to the instructor, when they are supposed to be PIC, then it will continue forever. The only thing that will stop that is a more bold student just getting fed up with being shy.

So my remedy here is more giving them the tools from the start and building on that. That is, design lessons where the student is given flight tasks they can handle without my help and let them have full control. Starting with only basic at altitude flight and bringing it slowly further until they are ready to do takeoff, pattern work, landing flare, and finally landing.

The point is, I don't give control of a flight phase until they have the basic flying skills to handle that phase. How can a 2 hours student have the skills to takeoff without your help? How can a 5 hour student have the skills to land without your help? So on...

Further down the road, in the primary training still, the student should be taught how to develop and succeed on personal goals. In college we read something on "growth planning" and I feel that is a necessity for the private pilot.

Finally, on this same topic I think PIC needs to be more than just in the aircraft. The student should become familiar with commanding the brief, debrief, and even some lesson plans. Let them completely control their learning environment, just like they have to completely control their own growth post graduation.

...how this has worked with female pilots. Nothing against women, it's just been my observation over the years that while women have the same technical skills as male pilots, they tend to be slower to gain confidence.

Same as above. Keep in mind, the female mind set is more timid because they, unlike us dumb boys, don't jump right in. They like to see what they are getting themselves into first, understand it, be able to control it, and then they are ready for it. So the above, ensuring they understand phases before they fly those phases, is infinitely more important for the "average" women.

Disclaimer: I am not claiming women to be worse for this, just different. Probably less likely to get killed doing something stupid then their male counterpart.

...how this has worked with new instructors. Since instructing is typically the last area of training, there aren't many opportunities to improve other than getting OTJ experience as a CFI. For instance, after the instrument rating, people can do timebuilding flights towards their commercial license, all while getting comfortable with their instrument ticket. Not so, for the CFI. It's trial by fire there.

I am not qualified, nor do I feel qualified enough to speak on this yet.

Is there any way to do it, other than saying, "Suck it up, get out there, and go!"? Mentoring from other pilots/instructors? Observing other pilots/instructors? Books you've read? What do you think? What's worked for you?

Better understanding of flight dynamics. Far to many instructors are scared of certain things and in almost every case the instructor doesn't understand it. Lack of understanding, or the unknown, gives birth to almost all human fears, why should instruction be any different?

 

[Douglas]

First off, the biggest problem I have seen is that those who lack the confidence to do what they were trained to do often times hide it from their training instructor.

The toughest thing about these situations is that the person has already completed training.

I've been approached many times and had to listening to somebody whisper about how want to learn to fly outside of their comfort zone. "Leave the farm" as I've heard it put. I get the sense that some feel that post certificate training would be an insult to their instructor.

As as side note, I think that is why many people's hobby of flying dissolves into something they "used to do".

Again, oddly topical in my daily flying; just today I had a referral from an airport northwest of me call to get post certificate training. I wish more would call instead of finding a new hobby.

On point -
I don't have a bag of tricks for this, or a "method", or anything that you haven't already thought of, but I'll continue typing anyway. :laff:

Example: Long X-C.
The great news is we actually take one, and I am a fly on the wall (if not in the beginning, I will be by the last long x-c).

We do it, I point out that I just sat their and then the key part is kicking their butt to then turn around and go solo very soon afterwards.

Same goes for those that are paranoid/shy on the radio, and looking for extra training.

the instrument pilot scared to fly in the clouds,

After nearly 30 hours with a man in a HP twin, (I was not acting as a pilot or instructor on these trips) I began to feel that we were running from clouds. Months later he calls me to be safety pilot while he does currency approaches. Lady luck was on our side and I suggested altitudes that landed us in IMC. He had flown IMC plenty years and years ago. By his words and by his flying I could tell that cloud flying with an instructor was exactly what he needed, but couldn't pull himself to confess it.

Learning by doing, I think that is the only way. Some come up and say they need help, some need the opportunity to be laid at their feet like that instrument guy.

To top it off, this is a problem I have a hard time relating to. I was fortunate to have excellent instruction all the way through my own training, coupled with my personality, in such a way that as soon as I got a rating, I was generally comfortable jumping head first in to whatever I was doing. I never needed to specifically work at building my own confidence.

I was/am a 180 of you.
I tread carefully where I've never been before in an airplane.
- Post Commercial, my parents asked me to take some of my siblings out to Denver. I'd never gone that far before and the "what ifs" were overwhelming. My buddy was working the line that morning, and simply said, "The trip is paid for, you know you can do it and if you don't do it now you will never do it. You might as well hang up your headset."
I took off for Denver, and when I got back I was cured. My buddy instructs with me now and he shares the same reservations that I do. I am happy to say that I have been there to kick his butt in to the airplane when it was nothing but confidence and not pilot ability standing in the way.
-Post instrument, I didn't see the inside of a cloud until four years after my checkride. We did zero IMC work during training and from all the stories I wasn't going in a cloud until I was with an instructor. And honestly just this summer/fall I had a lot of IMC flying and am just now finally confident in shooting approaches down to mins.

What I learned from it was that you just have to do it.
All of my instrument students get actual down to mins (so far).

If the CFI lacks confidence, then I don't see much hope besides letting them dip their toes in the water and wade to the deep end.

Dang, long post, but this is something that I actually know a little about...

 

[drunkenbeagle]

-Post instrument, I didn't see the inside of a cloud until four years after my checkride. We did zero IMC work during training and from all the stories I wasn't going in a cloud until I was with an instructor. And honestly just this summer/fall I had a lot of IMC flying and am just now finally confident in shooting approaches down to mins.

The first time you shoot an approach down to minimums, alone in an airplane, it is a special feeling. Certainly a moment you will never forget.

 

[jynxyjoe]

Have the student takeoff in your cheapest banger at the field but don't tell him the wing is on fire until after he's airborne.

Get a cooler from Walmart (if you have one thats fine too) and tape it shut with red tape that says "live organs". When he walks up to the FBO the next time, tell him/her they have to run those "live organs" to a place you want him/her to fly to. If you think the pilot will see through the scam kidnap their significant other (relatives included) and tie them up at said destination.

Combine exercises one and two if necessary.

 

[contactground.9]

Have the student takeoff in your cheapest banger at the field but don't tell him the wing is on fire until after he's airborne.

Get a cooler from Walmart (if you have one thats fine too) and tape it shut with red tape that says "live organs". When he walks up to the FBO the next time, tell him/her they have to run those "live organs" to a place you want him/her to fly to. If you think the pilot will see through the scam kidnap their significant other (relatives included) and tie them up at said destination.

Combine exercises one and two if necessary.

I am never taking instruction from you .... ever... .

 

[nosehair]

Have the student takeoff in your cheapest banger at the field but don't tell him the wing is on fire until after he's airborne.

Get a cooler from Walmart (if you have one thats fine too) and tape it shut with red tape that says "live organs". When he walks up to the FBO the next time, tell him/her they have to run those "live organs" to a place you want him/her to fly to. If you think the pilot will see through the scam kidnap their significant other (relatives included) and tie them up at said destination.

Combine exercises one and two if necessary.

Exxxzellent examples of some fine old school training. If students got this quality of training during training, the OP (and all of us) wouldn't have to be dealing with certificated pilots who are still afraid of the airplane or the environment.

But, that's what it comes down to. The pilot has to continue to train. I think most still do, but the ones who have a problem admitting they don't know everything need to be gently pushed or maneuvered into the kind of scenario that they are weak in.

 

[jrh]

But, that's what it comes down to. The pilot has to continue to train. I think most still do, but the ones who have a problem admitting they don't know everything need to be gently pushed or maneuvered into the kind of scenario that they are weak in.

Yeah, it's a fine line to walk. If the person lacking confidence does more training with an experienced pilot/instructor sitting next to them, they may never build confidence to do it on their own. But if they get forced out on their own, it might scare them more than they already are.

And that is why flight instructors are more like psychologists than pilots.

Thanks for the responses everyone. It's given me ideas I hadn't considered yet.

 

[MidlifeFlyer]

I don't have a specific situation to discuss in this thread, only general ideas I'd like to collect.

What are some methods for a pilot / new instructor to build their confidence, specifically *after* training ends?

I think we've all seen examples of this...the private pilot who's scared to take a cross country by themself,

The problem is that for very practical reasons, training tends to be limited to meet the requirements. Student cross countries, both solo and dual are just long enough to meet what's required. Other than the one dual cross country, instrument training tends to stay in the local area with the big picture of every approach and many of the details ultimately memorized.

I think the CFI's job is to do his best to make the pilot with the new certificate or instrument rating understand that the "license to learn" concept, while maybe sounding a little trite, is a very real thing. That certificate and rating are certificates attesting to basic competence in not only a skill set but in (hopefully) understanding that there are more kinds of experiences out there than most pilots will enounter in their lifetimes.

No1 on the hit parade - cross countries. Just the experience of landing at an airport where you don't turn base over the Wal-mart can be an eye-opener. Better yet, find somewhere you want to go for a full day trip. You may be luck enough that the weather changes and you have to make a real go-no go decision about getting back while dealing with a real tendency toward missionitis.

No 2 is understanding that the CFI is still available and that there is absolutely nothing wrong with the pilot calling for an extra lesson. For example, typical solo limitations on wind and crosswind can mean that a new private pilot has never had to deal with a substantial crosswind. The student should understand that, if that real windy day comes up, a CFI is just a phone call away.

For IFR, if you're unlucky enough to have trained in an area where the weather is VFR 70% of the time and only half of the remainder is flyable, the instrument rated pilto can come out with little or no experience in actual. No. 2 above fits this scenario perfectly. I have a friend who got his IFR years ago with very little actual and has flown next to none since., although he's maintained legal currency. Our plan this spring is to watch for those few good IFR days that show up here in April, May and June, grab an airplane and do a cross country together, just to get him reacclimated to being in the clouds instead of under a hood.

There's obviously a point where the pilot needs to just do it, or stay on the ground. Everyone is different but for the pilot that needs the push, how about combining one of those training sessions with solo flight.

Say you've done that post-IR flight - local approaches in actual. (Hopefully) when you land will be the point at which the pilot is feeling the most confident. And, it's the area he's familiar with. Why not plan to keep that training session short. The plan will be to go up, fly 2-3 approaches (no overloading allowed), land and then the CFI gets out of the plane. The pilot goes back up to do the exact same thing he's just done, in similar conditions, and in an airplane that's already been "tested" that day.

 

[killbilly]

I don't have a lot to add here but this may help.

My CFI gave me "homework" after my checkride. He wanted me to fly to three airports I had never been to before, and then call him back after the flights and "talk through them" with him. I was surprised at how much I learned just talking through the process.

Something else that was interesting. During my XC work and during regular airwork, at the time, my CFI spent a LOT of time teaching the "okay...you're lost...what do you do now?" and so I was drilled a lot on being lost and figuring out where I was.

Then, on my first solo XC, I got lost, calmly pulled out the sectional, and figured out where I was supposed to be. Made a turn and found my way to the airport. No problem.

I think getting lost is why a lot of people are scared to Leave The Farm.

But also, thinking back to right after my private - the few times I scared myself gave me more confidence than anything - like a night landing on a moonless, VFR night where I had to go to instruments on downwind. Or a really hazy afternoon where, on my way back, I had no real horizon to work with. Or on one of my student XCs, where the x-winds and turbulence were so bad it took me 3 tries (3 go arounds) to get the plane down. Or a time when I had just been checked out on a 172 and kept coming in high and fast at T74 and on the last attempt in, almost over-ran the runway.

And, I don't even care about getting lost anymore. My pilotage skills are admittedly rusty (stupid GPS) but I know how look at the ground and read a sectional. And I've found the more I do that, the better I get at it. As long as I've got fuel to wander around looking for the field, I'm in fine shape.

Those were all educational, but slightly scary moments. And each time I got in them, I heard Larry in my ear saying, "Remember - the plane isn't going to fall out of the sky. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. Take your time and set things up right. Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. Relax."

My point is that post-certificate, while you want the student to expand his envelope, only he can do that. And the best thing you can do is equip him with a set of skills that will allow him to "fall back" and handle situations. I guess. What do you think?

 

[jynxyjoe]

I had a guy in my club who was scared to death of doing anything but pattern work. He'd fly every weekend, pattern about 10000 times. After a few months, after intense research and planning, he flew the 30miles to Columbia County in New York, and then back. Then he flew over there and did pattern work, then flew back. After a couple months he went all the way to Glens Falls (51nm) then back, then patterns up at glens falls again and back.

You guys see where this is going?

I figure in 10-15 years, he'll be comfortable taking it to the Hudson River corridor.

People sometimes move slow. Let them.

 

[shdw]

Yeah, it's a fine line to walk. If the person lacking confidence does more training with an experienced pilot/instructor

I would argue that it can. However, like primacy for any other learned task, if they spent their entire training being timid with an instructor that was always "in charge." The requirements to improve their confidence would be far greater.

The instructor, and I think this is hard for most of us to do, really has to sit there and play the idiot passenger though. Don't speak up and teach, at the most offer stimulating questions.

It kind of falls to a post we had a couple weeks ago about making someone feel comfortable in the cockpit. Some people just have a knack for it. Likewise, some people will just have a knack for being able to build someones confidence without coddling.

PS If you give any of the suggestions in this thread a shot, would you mind providing feedback? I would be interested to read your findings.

 

[jrh]

Thanks for the discussion, everyone.

PS If you give any of the suggestions in this thread a shot, would you mind providing feedback? I would be interested to read your findings.

Ok, here's the story...I was hesitant to share it since it's sort of an internal business situation, but since all ends well, here's why I started this thread...

I informally mentor our instructors at the flight school. The idea is to help them keep improving their teaching techniques, while also improving our customer service, revenue hours, customer satisfaction, etc. Basically, the better our instructors are, the better our business is.

One of our instructors, I consider to be a really great teacher. She's low time, but has good technical skills, very professional, truly cares about teaching, all of that. She's a fantastic employee and I'm glad she's working with us. But if I had to pick out an area for her to improve, it would be her confidence.

She came from a flight academy type of background that didn't encourage or allow much in the way of building independence. She never really got out and flew cross countries for the heck of it, flew by herself, went in to busy airspace, etc. In general, never pushed the limits of...anything. As a result, sometimes her confidence is lacking.

I want her to have a ton of confidence both as a pilot and teacher, so that the customers she flies with pick up the same confidence. We sell our school on the idea of, "You won't simply have *a* license at the end of training, you'll be able to *use* your license to go anywhere and do anything." I want to make sure we're following through with that philosophy in the way we train everyone.

The problem is that funds aren't unlimited. To fly a plane, somebody has to pay for it. She's not in a position to rent the plane herself, and as a company, we can't afford to just go burn holes in the sky with no clear purpose in mind, other than a nebulous goal like building confidence. That's why I came here for suggestions. I've ridden in back on some of her training flights and given her teaching tips afterwards. Plus she's ridden in back on some of my flights and observed me teaching. But observing and talking can only go so far to build confidence.

A few weeks ago we were chatting and she told me she'd love it if I could go over spin training with her some time. She's never felt comfortable with spins, and the thought of it could actually be quite scary. Her words were, "I don't think I'll ever show my students spins, or try to teach them." Now *that* I can handle. The company can afford an hour flight for recurrent training over spins.

Yesterday we blocked off some time to take a plane up and spin the heck out of it. Before the flight, we talked about her background of spin training. Turns out she had one lesson on spins as a CFI in training, and it didn't go very well. She was scared, didn't really understand them, did a lousy job of teaching them, got motion sick, and was taught by an instructor who wasn't particularly comfortable with spins himself. But she got the endorsement.

Then we talked about specifically, "When I get nervous thinking about spins, this is what scares me..." Talked through all the scenarios, from breaking the wings off, to not being able to recover, to getting motion sick again, and how all of them were totally manageable (and unlikely).

When we went flying, I demo'd whatever she wanted to try. We started with power off entries. I did a few, then she took over and started practicing. We talked about every imaginable element, like how the entry speeds and order in which we applied the controls affected the entry "snappiness," or how we controlled G forces during the recovery. After doing a few, and being successful with understanding and recovering from them, she actually started having fun with it.

Then we moved on to power-on entries and they were a breeze for her. She saw that she could absolutely handle any student's botched stall, no matter how crazy it got.

Coming back in to the pattern, I played the role of a 5 hour student pilot and had her talk me through a touch and go, then around the pattern for a full stop. I approached it as, "Hey, I just want to see how you teach so I can understand what your students are used to when I fly with them on prog checks." It was nice to see her teaching style and be able to give tips afterward. That was a totally new experience for her...nobody ever played the role of a student during her CFI training. I can't imagine doing CFI training without those types of flights.

Anyhow, the whole idea worked. When I started the debrief afterwards, I asked her what she'd learned. She said she could definitely demo, recover from, and teach spins now. That's a 180 degree confidence shift from before the flight, of not wanting anything to do with spins in real life. Hopefully that confidence will carry over in to the rest of her teaching. Time will tell.

 

[Douglas]

Dude, cool...especially company willing to put down an investment in helping their instructor improve instruction. Win-Win

 

[ppragman]

Some people don't move that fast. I know that I have my own confidence issues in the airplane, not only is it something that you shouldn't be afraid of, its something that should be embraced. I have deficiency X, therefore I should either get training as required to cure deficiency X, or I should go out and fly in such a way that will cure deficiency X.

Deep down, every single one of us is worried about whether or not we're a "good" pilot. Not so that we can impress chicks, and dazzle bystanders, but because we have a fear of death, and a desire not to do harm to others. I think being too confident in an airplane is a bigger problem than not being confident enough provided you don't freeze up when the stuff hits that proverbial fan.

 

[jrh]

Some people don't move that fast. I know that I have my own confidence issues in the airplane, not only is it something that you shouldn't be afraid of, its something that should be embraced. I have deficiency X, therefore I should either get training as required to cure deficiency X, or I should go out and fly in such a way that will cure deficiency X.

Very wise words. And that's something I appreciate about this instructor...she's able to admit when she's not comfortable with something and wants to find a way to get comfortable with it. The only thing standing in her way is not having funds to do her own flying.

Deep down, every single one of us is worried about whether or not we're a "good" pilot. Not so that we can impress chicks, and dazzle bystanders, but because we have a fear of death, and a desire not to do harm to others.

That's so true. Anyone who says they've never had a, "I don't know if I'm cut out for this," moment is either lying or absolutely oblivious.

I think being too confident in an airplane is a bigger problem than not being confident enough provided you don't freeze up when the stuff hits that proverbial fan.

Also wise words. And that's something I've thought about in this case. Very few planes get banged up by pilots lacking confidence. That's why I'm careful not to push anyone too hard.

 

[Firebird2XC]

I agree with the CFI 'homework' idea.

The day I got my ticket, my examiner shook my hand and said he was granting me my "license to learn" - without direct supervision.

A military flying club still has a fair amount of oversight when compared to a civilian FBO, but he was right. I was out there where I could get myself into trouble now.

It's been said that pilots are their most dangerous in their first 100 hours, so I'd not try anything too cavalier. All the same, here's some stuff I did by myself or with the help of my CFI.

- Learn to plan trips to the maximum performance or endurance of the airplane. Add a "used airplane" fudge factor to the book value, but really understanding what the airframe can really do (and thereby, what you should be able to learn to do as a pilot) is really informative.

One particular exercise was to plan a long XC at the minimum possible legal altitude. The point of this wasn't to actually fly it, but to determine things like aircraft glide distance, drift down, and route planning (the route was fixed) based on actual terrain and environment. My particular route took me across the Puget Sound, over populated terrain, and through Class B airspace. It took me over 3 hours to actually plot and plan the path on a Sectional Chart to correct scale. Before we actually did fly the route, my CFI asked if I was going to fly it as planned. I was a rated PPL at that point and I refused unless we went with higher altitudes for safety's sake. That was the answer he wanted- he was testing my judgement, and not just my planning abilities.

Another I did was a 'serious' set of long range XC flights. I got checked out in the 182 with long range tanks and flew Tacoma, WA to the south SFO bay area- non stop. Actual flight path included IFR flight routing and a non precision approach down to minimums in an unfamiliar environment near terrain at night.

CFI run activities that I enjoyed included mountain flying. Deep valleys, one-way strips, short strips, and the like are great learning experiences about terrain and the weather it produces, density altitude, and aircraft performance.

Simpler techniques like spot landings (ie, calling touchdown point) and learning to fly training maneuvers to tighter tolerances was fairly simple and a good training tool. I had a CFI make me practice steep turns until I could hit my own wake turbulence.

Last but not least- de-mystify the 'big airports'. Slow indoctrination to flying in controlled airspace like Class B is a huge boost. Knowing as a pilot you can deliver exact requirements on demand is a great training tool. I recommend a CFI go along on this one. The first time I landed at a Class B airport, it was Phoenix Sky Harbor- in a 172. My CFI was the school owner doing an IFR stage check, and he told me he had several thousand hours before he ever had that experience. I had around 200 at that point. Huge learning experience.

 

[shdw]

She said she could definitely demo, recover from, and teach spins now.

Awesome as far as the confidence goes. Though I think it is silly for anyone with two hours of spin training to teach spins. Just my IMO of course. I believe to really understand spins you need to get in an aerobat and do 5-10 hours, depending on the person, of spin training. Mainly just to understand what faulty inputs can do to really make a spin dangerous.

 

[jrh]

Awesome as far as the confidence goes. Though I think it is silly for anyone with two hours of spin training to teach spins. Just my IMO of course. I believe to really understand spins you need to get in an aerobat and do 5-10 hours, depending on the person, of spin training. Mainly just to understand what faulty inputs can do to really make a spin dangerous.

I know what you're saying...I'd want her to have more experience to teach them to a CFI applicant, but I think if a student pilot asked her to teach them spins, she'd be capable of doing it safely and adequately. There's not much that can go wrong while spinning a 172 and reciting PARE.

 

[Roger, Roger]

There's not much that can go wrong while spinning a 172 and reciting PARE.

You could shock cool the engine then run it lean of peak in the recovery.

OH SNAP!