Another article about the regionals
- Thread starter mwflyer
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BrewMaster
Well-Known Member
These regional threads are getting up there with all the political threads...
LX40
Old School
Anyone remember the IMSAFE checklist? Illness, Medication, Stress, Alcohol, Fatigue and Emotion, respectively. I think pilot pay and safety can be strongly correlated in respect to stress and emotion. The stress of not being able to afford ones bills, loans, a healthy meal and a hotel room to get a good night sleep can all lead to negative emotions.
I would also say fatigue falls in there because negative emotions and stress are draining on the mind and body. One's ability to focus becomes hampered when under stress, emotion and fatigue. (I know this is all common sense)
It seems to me that pilot pay and safety have a strong correlation when you consider the above. Mishaps will continue to happen as long as these poor working conditions remain.
Good find with the article. Nice to see that this issue is getting public attention. :beer:
I would also say fatigue falls in there because negative emotions and stress are draining on the mind and body. One's ability to focus becomes hampered when under stress, emotion and fatigue. (I know this is all common sense)
It seems to me that pilot pay and safety have a strong correlation when you consider the above. Mishaps will continue to happen as long as these poor working conditions remain.
Good find with the article. Nice to see that this issue is getting public attention. :beer:
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
When I worked for Uncle Sam, we used another mnemonic to identify self-imposed stress sources.
DEATH.
Drugs
Exhaustion
Alchohol
Tobacco
Hypoglycemia
It's the 2nd and 5th ones I'm concerned about. How many have foregone a reasonable meal break or food entirely due to the schedule?
How many allow themselves to be driven by the schedule and convince themselves that Exhaustion is beyond their control?
popaviator
Well-Known Member
At a certain point does your body ever get used to "it"
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
As I recall, no. Long term fatigue accumulates and lowers your overall level, as I understand it.
Then again, our definitions of 'long term' may not be exactly the same.
I know in the short-term your mental abilities and reaction times resemble that of someone with two drinks' worth of alcohol in their system.
I find that interesting. Considering the legal limit for a pilot's blood alcohol level is .04 plus no drinking for eight hours prior, why on earth are we allowed to continue into time periods when we'd exhibit performance on par with someone with a .08 BAC?
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
The problem is that the FO chose the job and chose to commute across the country.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Because no one has died from that. Oh wait.
LX40
Old School
That doesn't dismiss the fact that the pay is an unlivable wage and that something should be done to improve working conditions.
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
Sure it does. Until more people take a stand and refuse to work for those wages, nothing will ever change.
When you have people willing to PAY to be in the right seat of a 121 op, what incentive is there for the management to raise the pay? About the only thing I can think of would be Union pressure, but the unions are about increasing for the haves and pissing on the have nots.
WalterSobchak
Well-Known Member
Let me call the Wha-mbulance! All I got from that article was a low time kid who shouldn't be at a regional any way with the time he has whining about money he should be making instructing. You have to pay your dues some where. If you have less than ATP mins(or 135 mins) you have to suck it up and realize you are going to get treated like a mainline guy because you arent one. I'm so sick of the I(or your parents)payed so much money argument. Every one wants the prize, but no one wants to run the race. Hold your self accountable you have little to no experience that commands a big salary in your first year. Just because you pay the most for a journalism degree doesnt mean you go to the New York Times right out of school. These threads:deadhorse:
popaviator
Well-Known Member
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
So what you're saying is.. regardless of his background, if he'd suffered enough he'd deserve more pay?
Your kind of thinking is outdated, man. The longer we perpetuate the concept that somebody hasn't paid their dues enough the longer airlines will give us ways to pay them.
Sure, I agree, he's a lower time guy, and maybe lower time types shouldn't be at the airlines. But still, once you get there.. why on earth would we consider it appropriate to be underpaid?
This 'paying dues' business is bunk. It's just finding ways to say working harder and making less makes you strong or cool.
BajtheJino
I'm looking at you.
Planes are dropping from the sky?
If your pay can't pay your bills youre living outside of your means.
Improve working conditions? Need more air conditioner? Need a canary to make sure you can breathe the air? Doing a lot of heavy lifting?
Or are you doing some paperwork, sitting in a chair 90% of your day letting an a/p do 99% of your flying?
LX40
Old School
That's not what I said.
There's something called inflation. $16K a year is barely a livable wage today and the payscale for the regionals has not moved a whole lot since the 80's. I feel that the pilots should get paid a lot more than they do now, get treated by the company with a bit more respect and get a lot more rest time than they do. I can appreciate the humor in your comment but I think you know exactly what "working conditions" is referring to.
tonyw
Well-Known Member
Yes, it is. It used to make sense back in the days when you could pay your dues, and plan on working for the same company for 20, 25, 30 years and retire with a golden watch and a pension. Then it made sense. You put up with a few years of crap, and then they'd make it up to you.
Now? They'll rightsize, downsize, make you redundant or whatever they want to call it at the drop of a hat. Pension? Ha, you'll be lucky to get a 401k match. Golden watch? Try a pot luck party.
With that kind of environment, I say do this. Get as much as you can out of an employer as quickly as you can. You don't know how long you'll have before they shove you out the door.
flyingmaniac
Well-Known Member
Tell me you don't think this way. If autopilot does all the work, then why are two pilots required to be in the cockpit?
deadstick
Well-Known Member
Kinda like a battery that gets drained and then only gets a surface charge.
I haven't heard this perspective before. Not bad.
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
That's not what I said.
There's something called inflation. $16K a year is barely a livable wage today and the payscale for the regionals has not moved a whole lot since the 80's. I feel that the pilots should get paid a lot more than they do now, get treated by the company with a bit more respect and get a lot more rest time than they do. I can appreciate the humor in your comment but I think you know exactly what "working conditions" is referring to.
So why are people taking the jobs?
:banghead:
Mattio
Well-Known Member
Because they want to eventually be making money and the only way to get there is to work a job where you get paid like crap for way too long. It's just a matter of degrees. If they pay even just a little more reasonable it would make a huge difference. The very lowest salary for a brand new FO should still be something that you could live off. We love to fly and we'll do anything to chase the dream, and sometimes we don't realize what we're getting ourselves into. That's what happened to me, two years into a regional that said I'd have a one year upgrade and still an FO and technically qualifying for foodstamps, I said "f- this, I'm out". It was a hard decision but the best one ever for me.