Hot: Air France Jet Missing (AF 447)

This is getting very interesting. If the debris didn't come from the AF crash, then where else? I dont see too many aircraft seats floating around in the ocean. Good find on pprune. Those guys come up with some really interesting info.
 
Re: Hot: Air France Jet Missing

maxmache said:
even if the flight was tracked by gps, it wouldnt make much of a difference. Assuming that it crashed, a gps wouldnt have made any difference in the outcome, besides, imo a gps wouldnt withstand the force of an A330 hitting the ground or water for that matter. And if the crash didnt destroy the gps, i'm sure the ocean would.

also, imho i'd rather have hope that my friends/family are alive rather than knowing for a fact they're dead
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Couldn't it make the recovery efforts easier? Last I heard they were still having some difficulty locating the exact crash point.

If it cost millions of dollars per aircraft to install I could understand the hesitation to mandate it. But, if it's something in the mere thousands, it would seem rather ludicrous to not require it for transatlantic flights.

Polar742 said:
From CNN:



Source: http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/06/04/plane.crash/index.html
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Was that CNN flubbing up or did they really mean ALL of the debris found was NOT from AF 447?
 
Re: Hot: Air France Jet Missing

Wild_Weasel said:
Couldn't it make the recovery efforts easier? Last I heard they were still having some difficulty locating the exact crash point.

If it cost millions of dollars per aircraft to install I could understand the hesitation to mandate it. But, if it's something in the mere thousands, it would seem rather ludicrous to not require it for transatlantic flights.



Was that CNN flubbing up or did they really mean ALL of the debris found was NOT from AF 447?
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Is seems to be a real statement from Brazil. They say it wasnt wreckage from AF. Im curious as to the actual chances of them finding any kind of debris in the exact area they think the airplane went down. This will be interesting.
 
Anyone else getting the impression that what's hampering this search most of all are the main players (Brazil/France) involved?

FYI - very interesting segment on the The Weather Channel last night where they spent time debunking some of the media reports of the weather conditions this plane may have encountered.
They were most bothered by the words ferocious and hail appearing in the media. Americans may not realize it but the strength of thunderstorms we get in the midwest and southern plains are rarely if ever found anyplace else on earth except in southern Canada.
Canadian cold fronts pushing south and warm Gulf of Mexico moisture streaming north are the triggers that create these violent storms and those two triggers are unique to this part of the world. These atmospheric conditions simply do not exist off the coast of South America. No question they get thunderstorms but rarely if ever are they hail producing in that part of the world. The atmosheric triggers are not in place to produce ferocious hail producing thunderstorms. They also reinforced what I was saying yesterday about the plane having to fly straight through the core of a storm to enounter any updrafts.
Was quite interesting.
 
"France's Le Monde newspaper quoted sources close to the investigation saying that the airliner was flying "at the wrong speed" in the early hours of Monday just before the disaster."

"The paper said the manufacturer of the doomed plane, Airbus, was set to issue a recommendation advising companies using the A330 aircraft that their "crews should preserve the thrust of their engines" during poor weather conditions." http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/tre5501pb-us-france-plane/
 
brent p h said:
"France's Le Monde newspaper quoted sources close to the investigation saying that the airliner was flying "at the wrong speed" in the early hours of Monday just before the disaster."

"The paper said the manufacturer of the doomed plane, Airbus, was set to issue a recommendation advising companies using the A330 aircraft that their "crews should preserve the thrust of their engines" during poor weather conditions." http://www.newsdaily.com/stories/tre5501pb-us-france-plane/
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What does that mean?
 
braunpilot said:
What does that mean?
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I suspect it mostly means the news agency is desperate to report something as a cause of the crash.

More likely, the ACARS reports indicated speeds that were inappropriate for the flight condition and that the air data units were malfunctioning. The telex was probably simply a diligent reminder to "fly the plane" even when there are faults present.

This statement in the article is somewhat deceptive:
An industry official said such warnings are only sent if accident investigators have established facts that they consider important enough to pass on immediately to airlines.
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Those "facts" could be a nebulous as "faults were encountered, including ones related to airspeed indications, and the airplane crashed."
 
Seems to be going the same way as every Airbus accident. There has never been a problem with an Airbus aircraft. It has always been pilot error.
 
This may seem silly but if the debris wasn't from an "actual" AF A330, could it have been a codeshared flight? Same flight but different airline. For example, when I use to non-rev on UAL, sometimes it would actually be labled AC123 (Air Canada). Or AAL would be IB440 (Iberia). See where Im going? It seems very unlikely that this may be the case but you never know. :confused:
 
CaptainCrickettMan said:
This may seem silly but if the debris wasn't from an "actual" AF A330, could it have been a codeshared flight? Same flight but different airline. For example, when I use to non-rev on UAL, sometimes it would actually be labled AC123 (Air Canada). Or AAL would be IB440 (Iberia). See where Im going? It seems very unlikely that this may be the case but you never know. :confused:
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Umm....what?

If I understand what you're saying, don't you think that if this was a codeshare flight using a different airline's plane that airline would probably have noticed they were missing a plane?
 
Somebody call the chemtrail folks and get the latest alien inflow/outflow report for that night. Earth customs may have missed a smuggled airliner being removed from earth. :crazy:
 
Screaming_Emu said:
Umm....what?

If I understand what you're saying, don't you think that if this was a codeshare flight using a different airline's plane that airline would probably have noticed they were missing a plane?
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Maybe, maybe not. It was just a thought. I figured the codeshare partner would have reported their missing craft but stranger things have happened. This whole situation is a mystery. Just keeping an open mind.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
Stop...nobody really knows anything about this accident. Stop speculating.
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Emu.... This is a public forum and if someone wants to SPECULATE on ANYTHING so be it. Speculating is good for pilots...it allows our brains to formulate ideas and theories and maybe make us think enough about a subject to prevent some mistake in the future.
 
braunpilot said:
What does that mean?
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Disconnect autothrust, set power and maintain x pitch. Autothrottles will chase a commanded airspeed which, in turbulence, is going to be varying, possibly considerably. And the autothrust will be chasing the LAST excursion, not the NEXT event.

Considering that at x gross weight and at x altitude your 'throat' is going to be around 30-40kts maximum. Reportedly the -330's cruise mach was flightplanned at 0.82M and penetration airspeed is 0.81M. Others have posted that cruise was around 260KIAS with penetration at 245KIAS and buffet at 230KIAS. 15 kts either way.

My various QRHs have charts and power settings for unreliable a/s which would occur with the loss of pitot input and loss of an Air Data computer.
 
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