Colgan hearings are complete and utter <..>

mrivc211

mrivc211

Well-Known Member
My blood is boiling at 7am. I love how everyone except the pilots are giving testimony at this hearing. Yes it may have been the pilots fault. But they're purposely avoiding the whole issue, of underpaid, and overworked. This will happen again because Colgan, and these so called experts in the field are blaming just the pilots. Lets talk about why both of those pilots had to commute to work? Why the FO had to sleep on a couch instead of get a hotel for the night. Not a word about why. Only that they did it and it may have caused them to crash. One of us needs to be interviewed.
 
Unfortunately, what I see happening is, after the public outcry that the pilots were fatigued the government will implement some knee jerk reaction like no more commuting, instead of addressing the real problem.
 
The only thing that making commuting "illegal" will do is create a rush of fake residencies. People can't be required to live in base, especially with the new-hire pay.
 
Front page story in the Buffalo News is about low pay and long hours. I haven't read it yet to see what it actually says.
 
I know everyone is upset because they feel the whole duty times, low pay, and fatigue issues are just being looked over, but what you have to remember is the NTSB is trying their hardest to find out the primary reason why 3407 went down.

Unfortunately, the underpaid and overworked issue is probably not going to be the primary factor. If it was, then every regional flight that took off every day would be crashing into homes. Again, the NTSB wants to know the primary reason the airplane went down. Once they determine that, then they can start looking into the contributing factors of the overpaid and overworked issues.

Remember folks, this is just a public hearing. Nothing has been finalized yet. We are still a long, long way from the Final Report the NTSB will eventually issue.
 
ctab5060X said:
Unfortunately, the underpaid and overworked issue is probably not going to be the primary factor. If it was, then every regional flight that took off every day would be crashing into homes. Again, the NTSB wants to know the primary reason the airplane went down. Once they determine that, then they can start looking into the contributing factors of the overpaid and overworked issues.

.
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And those factors never will be primary causal. Secondary at best, likely tertiary. Primary is what physically caused the accident....in this case, crew inputs apparently. As you peel back the onion in the investigation, a good few layers down will show things like work environment, fatigue, etc.
 
Had a United guy in the jumpseat, even he was going to sleep in the "crewroom hotel". So paying people more won't absolve the fact that pilots are just cheap.

The one and only time (so far) I picked up a trip out of base I went up the night before, bought a hotel room, etc. I could've come in that same day but then I was looking at a really long day. I don't see how it's fair to blame the company for "forcing" the pilots to come in the same day and work another 10-16 hours.
 
ctab5060X said:
I know everyone is upset because they feel the whole duty times, low pay, and fatigue issues are just being looked over, but what you have to remember is the NTSB is trying their hardest to find out the primary reason why 3407 went down.
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You are correct. Personally I'm happy these issues are being discussed. When was the last time that regional pay and fatigue got any real press? The fatigue issue with this one is difficult because as it related to this accident it was not necessarily the direct result of Colgan scheduling...more self induced.
 
You guys should be ecstatic that the media is finally giving coverage to what plagues this industry - this is what you guys have been asking for. If people stop flying commuters, then it will fall upon the regionals to do more to convince the public that they're safe.
 
Orange Anchor said:
what is the real problem?
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There is no real problem other than you don't yank the stick back to keep from stalling.

As for regional pay and benes, as long as people continue to be willing to work for next to nothing on the promise of future gains, regional pilots will continue to be treated like crap, and fatigue (as mikeD said) will be a tertiary cause of accidents.
 
Hahaha, right. Theres no option to 'exclude regional airlines' on expedia. In a month the public will forget about this and then yell at the gate agent about how they paid $99 whole dollars for this DEN-IAD flight and how dare she move them to another seat just because there was a 90 year old lady in an exit row!
 
wheelsup said:
Had a United guy in the jumpseat, even he was going to sleep in the "crewroom hotel". So paying people more won't absolve the fact that pilots are just cheap.

The one and only time (so far) I picked up a trip out of base I went up the night before, bought a hotel room, etc. I could've come in that same day but then I was looking at a really long day. I don't see how it's fair to blame the company for "forcing" the pilots to come in the same day and work another 10-16 hours.
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There is a lot of truth to this ;).
 
MQAAord said:
The only thing that making commuting "illegal" will do is create a rush of fake residencies. People can't be required to live in base, especially with the new-hire pay.
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That's a great point, and people will always find a way around the system. But if airlines increased pay, we might be able to afford to live in base.

I think the airlines can (not should) require people to live in base. If I worked as an accountant, the company would expect me to live in/near the city I was employed in.
 
stuckingfk said:
That's a great point, and people will always find a way around the system. But if airlines increased pay, we might be able to afford to live in base.

I think the airlines can (not should) require people to live in base. If I worked as an accountant, the company would expect me to live in/near the city I was employed in.
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Absolutely NOT. The company wouldn't have anything at all to say where you lived. They would expect you to be at work at 8am and let you off at 5pm. What you do in your off time is up to you. You could live 5 min away, or 2 hours away.
 
mrivc211 said:
My blood is boiling at 7am. I love how everyone except the pilots are giving testimony at this hearing. Yes it may have been the pilots fault. But they're purposely avoiding the whole issue, of underpaid, and overworked. This will happen again because Colgan, and these so called experts in the field are blaming just the pilots. Lets talk about why both of those pilots had to commute to work? Why the FO had to sleep on a couch instead of get a hotel for the night. Not a word about why. Only that they did it and it may have caused them to crash. One of us needs to be interviewed.
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I'll do it. As a Colgan alumnus who quit in protest over the conditions and pay, I'm a prime candidate.

Not to mention my spearheading "Remember 3407".

I'm writing a letter today to USA Today. Roger Cohen, that Regional Airline Associate yahoo said EVERY pilot at the Regional level is an ATP.

Really? What?

The half-truths and malarky that are being sewn in the public about the nature of the 3407 crew's qualifications and the nature of Colgan Air, and every other Regional airline needs to be aired.

It's time.

In a little bit, I'll post an email address. Anyone that wants to email me a story, either here, or at the "official" Remember3407 address is welcome and strongly encouraged.

Tell me your stories of Regional wrong-doing and shady operating.

Regardless of who you work for, you've seen something. Don't be silent.

Your voice of truth may be the one that spurs on the change and reform we so clearly need.
 
Last night I was watching CNN, and they had a couple of the family members of the victims from flight 3407 on. They also had a lady who worked for the Department of Transportation. The lady from the Department of Transportation did bring up, during this CNN interview, the fact that this FO was only making $16K, and also brought the rest issues of both crew members, and how over half of regional pilots have to commuteo over 400 miles to work. She also brought up that the "inexperience" level of new pilots hired in the regional airline industry, over the last few years, and how this isn't just an issue of this particular crew, but this is something regional pilots, across the industry, are dealing with. She then went on to say that the airlines were the ones making the excuses about why tighter regulations are not in place. She added that the overall response from the airlines was, "the FAA doesn't require it". She said that there definitely needs to be reforms made to crew rest, training, experience level of pilots being hired, etc. She said regulations need to change, but, it is the FAA that must implement these regulations. MAYBE some good will come of this, and we will see some changes.
 
These two pilots that had the free will to work for any company. They accepted the conditions of the employment there.

They were inattentive and allowed the aircraft to enter a stall.

Then they improperly recovered through the incorrect response to a stall via the controls and raising the flaps from 10-0(2 settings) in the middle of a fully developed stall.

How did choosing to be under paid and choosing to commute factor into their lack of airmanship? They might have been the nicest people in the world, but their lack of airmanship and killed 48 other people. These are the facts.

http://www.ntsb.gov/Events/2009/Buffalo-NY/AnimationDescription.htm
 
stuckingfk said:
I think the airlines can (not should) require people to live in base. If I worked as an accountant, the company would expect me to live in/near the city I was employed in.
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How many times has the company HQ been displaced? We have guys that have been here 6 years that have had 5 or more domiciles.
 
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