If all the lemings were jumping off a bridge, I wouldn't go, because I'm not a lemming. If the OPSPEC says it's wrong, it's wrong. Is it not. I think a call to dispatch like Mike says is in order.
General question to all frieght pilots
- Thread starter mshunter
- Start date
If all the lemings were jumping off a bridge, I wouldn't go, because I'm not a lemming. If the OPSPEC says it's wrong, it's wrong. Is it not. I think a call to dispatch like Mike says is in order.
R
Roger, Roger
Guest
Sounds like you need the guts to go when it's safe and legal but not comfortable, and the guts to not go when it's not safe or legal, no matter how hard you're pushed.
That pretty much sums it up.
If you don't go because you aren't comfy with shooting an 1800RVR ILS at the end after hand flying for 2+ hours, you're probably looking at the wrong segment of the industry.
OTOH, if you're being pressed to go in +FZRA in a 210 or Navajo and you're okay with that...you're probably in the wrong industry period.
Having said that, if there's a voice telling you "I shouldn't be here..." you should prolly listen to it.
-mini
Boris Badenov
Fortis Leader
I'll never forget my first week in CPS flying for a freight company. By the time I arrived (way underdue), all the other guys were out the door. I looked at the weather radar once (not like there was anything less than one massive red blob that would have disuaded me in the face of all the other dudes blasting off), and off I went. That flight ended in tears, prayers, and promises to God that I've yet to make good on. Don't be subject to what anyone else decides to do. It's your ass on the line. There's no shame in acting like that's the case.
Low&Slow
Ancora imparo
I understand the drive, I'm a bit of an adrenaline junkee as well. I ride bulls, drag race, and am a paratrooper, but one thing I have learned is that if you are too adventuresome or daring, you are almost certain to overstep the bounds of safety at some point, and pay dearly for having done so. Regardless of how cautious (or in your case, reckless) you are, when you play a dangerous game you WILL get hurt sooner or later, it's not IF, it's WHEN and HOW BAD. Learn how to minimize your risk of serious injury or death while trying to get your thrill on.
Intentionally flying aircraft into known icing w/o anti-ice or de-ice is not a good idea and could possibly get you into trouble with the FAA as well. Flying is very serious and should be respected and treated as such. You are not being pressured into making these irresponsible and reckless flights, you are making a conscious decision to push your luck just for the thrill of it. Intentionally flying an aircraft into meterological conditions that are outside of it's design basis not only shows poor judgement, but it will eventually end badly, deepen the public's fear of GA, and increase the Federal spotlight on GA as well. We will ALL be affected by it. Please don't be "that guy". I recommend you find a different "dangerous sport."
"Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots."
- E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
Hmmm...I'm kinda confused now, maybe I misunderstood you before. This post seems to contradict your earlier one. I hope you stay safe.
I don't think it's a contradiction, it's a better explanation, but i definitely see what you mean. My first post you quoted did sound like I am a reckless haphazard. But let me just clarify one more time for my sake. I don't go out chasing ice or t-storms, and I am not reckless (I don't think). I have a healthy respect for flying machines. I grew up around them, and know people who have pushed the limits too far. I have never launched into known icing, or T-storms. I have however encountered un-forecast conditions. They scare me yes, but I deal with it, and learn from it. I have never put myself in a situation that I couldn't get out of. I think everyones definition of bad wx, must be different than mine. So, here is my definition of bad wx. Something like 300 ovc, moderate turb., +RA. I dunno, maybe I am a wuss. And after the last few encounter w/ice, I will not continue to fly when the temps are getting to 1-2 c, I'll find a way out.
I hope that helps to dispel some of the reckless attitude I seem to have created about myself.
P.S. As for the adrenlin junkee, you sound like me. Only take out the bull riding and insert motorcycle riding. But after learning how to fly, I don't jump out anymore.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
**Pulls out Ruler**
SIZE COMPARE TIME!
But seriously, we aren't RJ pilots, this "my time's better than your time, my experience is better than your experience" is bull . Dogging on the guy for not having experience isn't really that cool. He'll learn. That cockyness that you start out with goes away real quick when you dodge mountains and get 3 - 4 inches of clear ice. The cockyness goes away when you get really scared for the first time. You get the balls not to go, and to tell management "no way," after you've realized how close to the ragged edge you've come, and how stupid it was to go in the first place.
What he reads on JC won't save his life, nor will telling him how inexperienced he is. The only thing that makes you understand how inexperienced you are is time in the saddle. In the words of old timer, "What happens when you scratch the surface? You create more surface area." There's always more to learn, but you don't know that when you're starting out. You think you're invincible, and that you'd never do anything as dumb as those other pilots. Learning in aviation takes one of three things, time, experience, or bodybags. Hopefully we don't have to see the third one. Good luck. Keep the greazy side down, and for the rest of the freight dogs out there, don't be like RJ drivers.
SIZE COMPARE TIME!
But seriously, we aren't RJ pilots, this "my time's better than your time, my experience is better than your experience" is bull . Dogging on the guy for not having experience isn't really that cool. He'll learn. That cockyness that you start out with goes away real quick when you dodge mountains and get 3 - 4 inches of clear ice. The cockyness goes away when you get really scared for the first time. You get the balls not to go, and to tell management "no way," after you've realized how close to the ragged edge you've come, and how stupid it was to go in the first place.
What he reads on JC won't save his life, nor will telling him how inexperienced he is. The only thing that makes you understand how inexperienced you are is time in the saddle. In the words of old timer, "What happens when you scratch the surface? You create more surface area." There's always more to learn, but you don't know that when you're starting out. You think you're invincible, and that you'd never do anything as dumb as those other pilots. Learning in aviation takes one of three things, time, experience, or bodybags. Hopefully we don't have to see the third one. Good luck. Keep the greazy side down, and for the rest of the freight dogs out there, don't be like RJ drivers.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Spikey hair, autopilots, inside with a heater, ya know, typical stereotype.
What I'm saying is with all the threads in the airline pilots forum it degenerates into a penis comparing contest about who has the best regional, work rules, who's dangerous, whose screwing the industry because they work for company X, who doesn't have experience to comment on union factors. "You don't know because." That's what I'm talking about. That stuff doesn't need to infect the freight threads too.
dcramer16
Well-Known Member
:yeahthat:
braunpilot
What day is it?
:yeahthat:
ctab5060X
Well-Known Member
You don't want the whole, my X is better than your X stuff in this area, but you are constantly talking about how horrible RJ pilots are and how much better it is to be a freight dawg than a *gasp* RJ pilot.
Seems to me that you are also pulling it out and showing it off, just you don't do it about other freight companies. You just have to constantly degrade yourself by bashing RJ pilots. Not the regional portion of the airlines themselves, or even specific companies, but the pilots themselves. Pitiful. Rather than giving good advice to a person, you tell them "don't be like RJ drivers".
As a former freight dawg, I find it appalling that the one constant thing in these threads is the RJ pilot bashing. Give it a rest.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Flame bait dude, I don't care what your driving, its joking about stereotyping. Relax. Do I disrespect you, no? Actively having emotions about people on jetcareers is way down at the bottom of my priority list right now. Don't get over temped about stuff on the webaverse. Maybe I should have said, "don't be like the usual suspects in the airline pilots forums." But frankly, I don't care. Lighten up man.
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
I'd barely be able to breath I'd be so full of piss and vinegar.
You were just a training captain though. So that doesn't count either.