RVSM Approval

[Fly_Unity]

We currently operate a CJ3 part 91. It has ADSb so we do not have a LOA with the new rules.

However it appears like we will need one since it will be going on a 135 certificate.

I never been involved in the process getting a LOA, nor have I ever seen an RVSM manual.

Any suggestions on how to obtain/write/buy an RVSM manual so we can get a LOA?

Any input appreciated!

 

[ppragman]

We currently operate a CJ3 part 91. It has ADSb so we do not have a LOA with the new rules.

However it appears like we will need one since it will be going on a 135 certificate.

I never been involved in the process getting a LOA, nor have I ever seen an RVSM manual.

Any suggestions on how to obtain/write/buy an RVSM manual so we can get a LOA?

Any input appreciated!

I'll text some people to see if I can find a template for you.

 

[SteveC]

1. Domestic RVSM approval is not required for ADS-B aircraft under 135 either.
2. The driving factor for an RVSM Ops Spec (135) or LOA (91) is for international flying.
3. A Part 91 LOA would only apply to 91 flying, not 135.
4. The 135 certificate holder needs to apply for the appropriate Ops Spec if they want it, not you.

Am I misreading what you are saying/asking?

 

[Fly_Unity]

1. Domestic RVSM approval is not required for ADS-B aircraft under 135 either.
2. The driving factor for an RVSM Ops Spec (135) or LOA (91) is for international flying.
3. A Part 91 LOA would only apply to 91 flying, not 135.
4. The 135 certificate holder needs to apply for the appropriate Ops Spec if they want it, not you.

Am I misreading what you are saying/asking?

1. Our POI told me that since its the first Jet on our 135 certificate, we would need to apply for a LOA to fly RVSM. And to apply for the Opsecs, we would need to submit an RVSM manual (even if we already have ADSb). Is he wrong here?

2. We eventually want to fly international, so regardless, it looks like we need to.

3. I understand. The LOA would solely be for 135.

4. Im speaking on behalf of the 135 Certificate Holder.

 

[SteveC]

1. Our POI told me that since its the first Jet on our 135 certificate, we would need to apply for a LOA to fly RVSM. And to apply for the Opsecs, we would need to submit an RVSM manual (even if we already have ADSb). Is he wrong here?

2. We eventually want to fly international, so regardless, it looks like we need to.

3. I understand. The LOA would solely be for 135.

4. Im speaking on behalf of the 135 Certificate Holder.

That makes more sense. Just a word on nomenclature (ha!); LOA typically refers to the Part 91 version of the Ops Spec. B046 in this case.

 

[ricecakecm]

1. Our POI told me that since its the first Jet on our 135 certificate, we would need to apply for a LOA to fly RVSM. And to apply for the Opsecs, we would need to submit an RVSM manual (even if we already have ADSb). Is he wrong here?

2. We eventually want to fly international, so regardless, it looks like we need to.

3. I understand. The LOA would solely be for 135.

4. Im speaking on behalf of the 135 Certificate Holder.

1. If it’s the first jet on that certificate, you’d need to do proving flights. If those flights take you out of the country, you’ll need the LOA.

2. Yes.

3. When you’re operating Part 135, you need OpSpecs, not an LOA.

4. If you’re applying for OpSpecs on behalf of the Certificate Holder, you should be named on OpSpec A007.

 

[Fly_Unity]

1. If it’s the first jet on that certificate, you’d need to do proving flights. If those flights take you out of the country, you’ll need the LOA.

2. Yes.

3. When you’re operating Part 135, you need OpSpecs, not an LOA.

4. If you’re applying for OpSpecs on behalf of the Certificate Holder, you should be named on OpSpec A007.

1. Proving rides are a done deal.

3. Yep. Steve Pointed that out. Our POI did say again that we needed a LOA (but first we need to come up with an RVSM Manual) to give us the OpSpec. I am however looking for an RVSM Manual so that I can get the OpSpec.

4. I am named on A007.


My Original Question is/was "Any suggestions on how to obtain/write/buy an RVSM manual for a CJ3 so that we can get the LOA AND OpSpec?"

 

[RC6322]

My Original Question is/was "Any suggestions on how to obtain/write/buy an RVSM manual for a CJ3 so that we can get the LOA AND OpSpec?"

I think that the CJ3 line was RVSM certified when they were delivered. An RVSM manual should have been issued to the owner on delivery. If it has been lost, you may be able to get a copy through your local Textron Aviation (Cessna/Citation) Service Center (I don't know where you are based). You may also be able to get more information if you call the following support numbers:

Textron Aviation Support hotline 316-517-1695.
Team 525 877-832-9831 or 316-517-1400.
Cessna Pilot Services 316-517-7717.

I hope this helps.

 

[dustoff17]

While the production aircraft today are all RVSM certified upon completion of flight acceptance, the RVSM manual is optional from the OEM. A couple of years ago it was about $1,800 for the manual. Some operators (both 91 and 135) already had a CJ3 so they were able to duplicate the manual or just include the new reg/serial in the existing manual and move on.

As mentioned above, you can go back to Cessna for a manual. However, depending on how old the plane is or what, if any, modifications have been made since it left the factory, they may not be able to provide one without their inspection and sign off of the aircraft itself. Best solution...….Find someone with a manual and copy it.

If you have a few days, I'll be back home and will look through my RVSM manual "stash". I think I have a 3 manual...…..however, I'm pretty sure it does not include ADS-B equipment. This can be added to the equipment list.

I'll send a PM if I find one and we can work out the details.

 

[Fly_Unity]

Thanks for the suggestion guys. We did contact Textron and they wanted $2,500 for their PDF version of the RVSM Manual. Needless to say, I was shocked and still looking elsewhere.

 

[dustoff17]

Found a manual! PM sent