LIDO Charts?

FlySmiley

FlySmiley

New Member
Anyone here use these charts? I know FedEx does and a few European carriers. Thoughts, opinions, experiences? For those who are not familiar, they are a Lufthansa Systems product generated from computer data rather than being hand drawn like Jepps. We are getting them at 9E as a supposedly transitional step towards EFB's.
 
We used them at JetBlue for a few months before the pilot group complained about them. Then we went back to Jepps. Honestly, I didn't mind them as much as a lot of other folks did. Some things are better, some are worse. There are "ball notes" all over the place. They are easy to miss if you're not looking for them. I wouldn't worry too much about them. In my opinion, switching to them is really not that big of a deal.
 
I think that is the vendor SkyWest was looking at for our EFBs. That is apparently dead in the water at the moment. They look cool enough, I like Jepps but wouldn't mind not lugging my flight case around. Especially when commuting :)
 
Honestly, I like them better. They don't have a "briefing strip," but it's still pretty easy to brief the approach. Depending on how the plan view is oriented, you either go clockwise or counter-clockwise around the plate, and it's a good flow.

Things I like are the MSA is superimposed on the chart instead of trying to figure out where you are from the 134 radial off the TTT VOR or some crap like that. The Airport Facilities Chart kicks butt if you need to divert, too. Everything you need is right there, including ILS frequencies and altitudes. Some of the parking charts are cool b/c the a) show you how the gate is oriented and b) show you if you need to call for a pushback clearance or not. In generally, they're a lot less cluttered since anything an air carrier wouldn't use (such as circling mins for class A and B a/c) is left off the chart. Cat II, Cat III and Cat I ILS are all on the same chart, too, instead of being split over two charts for each one. That reduces a LOT of charts to carry around.

It just takes some getting used to, and it wouldn't be any harder than transitioning from NACO to Jepp.
 
Gotcha, the big guys over here have been talking about getting EFBs for years. I think I will be the CEO of SkyWest sooner than we get EFBs :D :bandit:
 
I've only seen a few sample charts I got from LIDO -- they didn't look like they would be too hard to transition too.

When you turn to the part 121 special airport picture view of RNO, you're looking a product of me and my camera. :)
 
First, the LIDO EFB product is far superior to the Jeppesen EFB product. The information is easier to access, and easier to use.


As a transition to an EFB, the LIDO paper product is useful. As a stand-alone, it can be a pain. The pages are larger (European A4 size), thus the binders are larger. I think JetBlue made a huge mistake by having each pilot carry his own set of LIDO charts -- they should stay on the airplane. If I had been required to lug one of these LIDO bags, I would have complained, too.

One important concept you should keep in mind with LIDO: it's a product designed for an ICAO world, where the U.S. of A. has some differences. Contrast that with the Jeppesen product, which is designed for an FAA world. With Jeppesen, one must look at country pages when traveling outside the U.S. With LIDO, you must start from ICAO rules, and then consider the differences for the U.S. Once you understand the "ICAO-centric" approach, most things fall into place nicely.




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I noticed that they are very "constant descent" oriented. I do like the chart on the IACs that shows the approximate altitude you should be at certain DMEs to make it a 3 degree descent. It's a nice SA tool to have to make sure you're on glidepath, ESPECIALLY on non-precision approaches.

They're gonna require us to carry our own charts, too. CAs start hauling them around on 11/5 with FOs still carrying Jepps as part of the transition period. FOs will get the LIDO charts in Jan. The sample book they sent us is Jepp size, though. I've popped the pages out of the book and into my Jepp binder without any issues.
 
kellwolf said:
I noticed that they are very "constant descent" oriented. I do like the chart on the IACs that shows the approximate altitude you should be at certain DMEs to make it a 3 degree descent. It's a nice SA tool to have to make sure you're on glidepath, ESPECIALLY on non-precision approaches.
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Indeed, the Constant Angle Non-Precision Approach (CANPA) information is very useful. Be careful to notice the navaid used for the distances.




kellwolf said:
They're gonna require us to carry our own charts, too. CAs start hauling them around on 11/5 with FOs still carrying Jepps as part of the transition period. FOs will get the LIDO charts in Jan. The sample book they sent us is Jepp size, though. I've popped the pages out of the book and into my Jepp binder without any issues.
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If the pages are "Jepp-sized," that removes much of the hassle. That's most definitely a change from the format we use. As I mentioned before, ours are printed on the European equivalent of "Eight and a half by eleven" paper (an ANSI standard), which is known as ISO A4. The height-to-width ratio of the International paper sizes is the square root of 2 to 1. There's a whole long story about how to get there, but the page is about 210mm x 297mm -- narrower, but longer than the paper in our printers and copiers. (Recall the ICAO-centric mentality I mentioned above? They're also ISO-centric.) We have the ability to view all charts on-line, but in order to print them on 8½" x 11" paper, we have to reduce them to keep from cutting off the ends.

On each side of an A4 page we might have 2 IAPs (2 on the opposite side for a total of 4 per sheet of paper), which most likely could be arranged to display on a "Jepp-sized" (5½" x 8½") page. However, many of the pages take up the entire page, and would have to be printed on "Jepp-sized" fold-out pages (8½" x 11") folded to the smaller size in order to be legible and usable.

Another difference is the thickness/weight of the paper. The quality of color pictures used by LIDO simply cannot be produced on the "tissue" paper used for most Jeppesen pages. This detail results in extra weight, but it tends to improve durability.


If LIDO is going to the trouble of putting their charts in a format that is compatible with Jepp binders (an ANSI standard), they're trying much harder to win the U.S. customer than Jeppesen is. Jepp's EFB product has a long way to go, and they don't seem interested in going there. Some folks in Denver ought to be getting nervous about their future.




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Tony, a lot of the charts we have are, in fact, folded versions. They resemble the folded SIDS, STARS and 10-9s in the Jepps, actually. The paper is thicker, so that'll add weight. As a plus, though, we don't have to carry en-route charts. There will be a "brick" in each airplane available for use should the FMS tank. I also think the LIDO CRAR and LAT section is a good bit smaller than the introduction to the Jepps.
 
taseal said:
they seema bit confusing to me....

that RNAV one doesn't give app/atis freqs?
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Makes sense to me. By the time you start the approach, you're already talking to Approach and got the ATIS. It doesn't really need to be on the chart, so it just clutters things up. You'd get the approach/ATIS frequencies off the AFC when you were entering the terminal area.
 
taseal said:
they seema bit confusing to me....
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The treadmill seems to confuse you, too. ;)


taseal said:
that RNAV one doesn't give app/atis freqs?
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When you're flying the approach, you don't need the Approach or ATIS frequencies. You may also notice the approach to 36L doesn't have the tower or ground frequencies for 36R, because you don't need them, either.

The ATIS and Approach Frequencies will be found on the Arrival Charts (I'll attach one for you to peruse) and on the Airport Facilities Chart. You would have used one of these to get to a position where you would be flying the approach. When you're looking at the Wilder Arrival, you won't be confused by Approach Frequencies that are used for the Gilmore or Marvell arrivals -- just the one you'll use on the Wilder.

It's pretty handy... I mean, convenient, not like the Handy arrival. ;)





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TonyC said:
The treadmill seems to confuse you, too. ;)


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hey hey now....

that is like the biggest insult that can be given to any pilot :(

I rather be called a scab and go to Jet U, and fly for skybus than have someone say i'm confused about the treadmill thing :(

I perfectly understand the idea of the treadmill, and it all depends on what the treadmill is doing.
 
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